My point exactly. That is why I feel passing on him, when the Jets are in the position to take him, would be a mistake. I do not want to wait for the later rounds to address LT as you said before.
Please tell me what you are basing you opinion on? I'm not saying I disagree with your opinion, but I would like to hear how you formed your analisys. I just would like to hear why you think he will be good, but not great. Is this based on the film you have studied? Have you formed your own opinions on him based on play? I highly doubt it. Everyone is saying he is the best tackle prospect in years, but you seem to have the inside scoop. Are you just one of those "Dark-horse" guys who likes to make a bold statement-- if its correct, you are a prophet, if not, you never mention it again. In all honesty, I don't want to draft him just because jones IS valuable. He's a young player who will continue to improve, and he is CHEAP. Even if he is an average to good starter, it is worth keeping him there based on his cap number alone. You have to consider out cap issues as well.
Well when I say later rounds I don't necessarily mean 5th or 6th rounds... My plan is to draft Cutler with 4... Then in Round 2 get a OT... Then with one of our 4th rounder I want us to get a Guard...Maybe take a Guard and a center with both 4th rounders... God my new avatar is sweet...lol
If you don't want to invest a 1st round pick on a LT for the cap reasons you mentioned that's fine. However if you're going to use the cap as the reason not to draft a LT than IMO you can't justify a QB at that area since you would be invest an extraordinary amount (in excess of $30 million in bonuses) at the QB position.
Thats not at all what I am saying... read it again. What I like about jones is that he is a good young player who is CHEAP. Why would I want to invest my #4 pick, and all that money into his replacement? He is good, and cheap, and I would rather us focus on other positions with that pick. Why draft a guy when you know either him, or another player will have to switch positions. Having a decent starter who is on his way up and plays for that little money is a gift.
Oh yeah, also, no QB picked at 4 is getting as you say "in excess if $30 million on bonuses." peyton Manning's deal didn't even have that much gaurenteed money.
It is nice to have a decent starter for cheap. However if you feel that you can get a guy that can be a perenial pro-bowler at the position you don't pass up on them because you have a "decent starter", especially at a premium position such as LT. Bryan Thomas and Victor Hobson are cheap and decent as well, would you pass up on a Mario Williams or A.J. Hawk because of them?
I didn't say $30 million on the QB picked at #4, but you'd have more than $30+ mil in bonuses at the position with Pennington still on the roster. I'm not neccessarily against a QB (just think Cutler and Young are overrated and Leinart will be gone). My point was that if you are going to use the cap as a reason not to go D'Brick, than IMO you can't justify a Cutler or Vince Young because of the cap either.
First of all, a 2nd year guy who is a decent starter has not yet realized his full potential. I agree with what you say about Vic/Thomas because they probably will not get much better than they currently are. Their replacements (hawk, williams) should immediatly be better, and have a chance to be probowlers. However, considering our cap situation, and number of needs, we are in no position to start drafting replacements for our younger players who are decent now- and still have the potential to be good, or even great. If we draft a RT, then we have starting RT and LT- if we draft a LT, then we either draft another guy for the right, or we move Jones out of position. I'd rather take Cutler and hopefully land Marcus McNeil with the Abe pick as RT. If we get 9 we can trade down and still land him or Justice.
i apologize for the QB mistake- I see what you were saying... you still don't know what I'm talking about wiht the cap though. I don't care about D Brick's cap number, or that of Cutler/Young-that wouldn't deter me from drafting any of them. What I am saying is that we need to take advantage of having a starting LT on the books for like 440,000. D Brick would cost 10 times that-- is it really worth that much more money for the upgrade you get? It would be like drafting Mike Huff (as a safety) to replace Eric Coleman. Coleman is good enough-- why would we spend a high pick on Huff, and pay him 10 times Colemans Salary, even if he is an upgrade.
i think that d'brick is a standout awesome player at the position, hes so far ahead of his competitors. But.... we could also use the pick for many other VERY talented player. Sum ppl even say we need a new tight end... in any case doug jolley cant catch for nuts
The only 1st round tackle we should consider is the one we NEED. Ryan McNeil RIGHT tackle. When I say we need Vernon Davis - the pat answer I receive is - "We have too many needs". Well guess what? We have too many needs to consider Brick at #4. It wastes a good young player and would be very expensive. Draft to give our offense some dynamic playmakers in the 1st round. Let Adrian Jones grow into the solid LT he will be for years. Take McNeil if it winds up being a good value pick.
The majority of Lt's in the NFL are serviceable. Only a select few are Franchise/elite. Elite: Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Jon Ogden Next in line: Flozell Adams, Jeff Backus, Levi Jones,Willie Roaf Solid/Serviceable: Matt Light, Marvel Smith, Jonas Jennings, Mike Pearson Notice that under serviceable are the Lt's of the 2 most recent championship teams? What does that tell you. Having a franchise LT is certainly an asset but it is far from mandatory. By the end of this coming season Jones will easily be in the serviceable category. So my logic is this: Our OL needs a ton of help. We need 2 new starters and better depth.Why would we go and replace the one true position we have youth and real upside at? Im not saying Jones is a reason to not draft Ferguson. I just think it's something we need to think long and hard about. It isnt the "No brainer" some make it out to be.
With all the other needs on this team, Jones will be playing LT and Dbrick will be playing somewhere else. Thats the fact of the matter. You don't, in the position we are in, draft someone to play a position that we have a young player, who is developing nicely, playing. You go to your other needs. It's really quite simple... Ellis
Never said it was a no brainer. BUT, LT is a important position. If you are able to get a franchise LT, I think you do it. Granted many teams only have serviceable LTs, but if they had an opportunity to upgrade the position they would. People are operating under the assumption that Jones will grow into his role. I have seen nothing to make me believe he will. By the same token, there is no garauntee that Brick will be elite. IMO though, after watching Brick, he will be, and be a HUGE asset to the team. Not to mention a great security to the QB. IMHO, I see nothing special in Jones, and LT is not a position you screw around with.
Ferguson has shown legitimate size, superior athleticism, and he has great feet. Adrian Jones is a nice player, but D'Brickshaw Ferguson has the makeup to be a perennial Pro Bowler. We do not "NEED" to draft Ferguson as there are plenty of other available lineman, but he's the best available talent at that spot and it IS a position of need. Unless the quarterback we're drafting is named Leinart or the running back is named Bush, no one at either position warrants a number 4 overall pick. -X-
Great Post. While I'm not in favor of grabbing D'brick with the #4 pick, I can't say I'd throw myself off a bridge if we DID draft him. The thing is, this draft is so deep with O-lineman, we can afford to address it after the first round IMO. Think about it. We can land a Deangelo Williams, Mario Williams, AJ Hawk, or Vernon Davis (to name a few), and STILL rebuild the O-line on day one. I've said it before...you've got more of a chance of grabbing a solid O-lineman in the later rounds of the draft then you do of landing a top tier "Skill" player. Adrian Jones is a young player, who (given the circumstances) did a decent job last season, and has a lot of potential. If the guy was on a semi-talented line last season, and did a bad job, I could understand replacing him right now. The fact is he was on a terrible line, and was on an island most of the time. Not many would succeed in that situation. Probably not even D'brick.
yeah but Ferguson is only suited to play LT in the pro's plain and simple. So is Adrian Jones..........drafting him would make adrian jones a waste, especially when we need a G,C, and RT. oh and skill players dont forget them.
