You like lists, so here: Derrick Morgan Joe Pawelek* Navorro Bowman* Ryan D'Imperio Pat Angerer* Darryl Sharpton* Erik Lorig* Sam Maxwell * = way too light to play in the 3-4 Now that the season's over, it's clear that Derrick Morgan is a 4-3 end. D'Imperio has decent size, but he's slow and he's had trouble taking on blockers in the past. Sam Maxwell is banged up, and he's never shown any signs of being a productive pass rusher. His teammate Micah Johnson is incredibly strong and could be a very valuable 3-4 inside linebacker.
Morgan could probably handle 3-4 OLB, though he's not my favorite guy there. Pawelek, Bowman, D'Imperio, Angerer, Sharpton, and Maxwell all have excellent size, athleticism, are considered strong tacklers on their D, and offer versatile skillsets. All can blitz, all are team captains or leaders, and none really have any major issues with shedding blocks that an NFL workout program and coaching won't fix. I'm shocked Angerer, Sharpton, and Maxwell in particular are listed here. Hell, Maxwell and Sharpton are two of my favorite developmental LB in this draft. Lorig is just a stout DL from a good run stopping D. He also plays for one of my favorite cfb head coaches. So you tell me why they don't belong.
Derrick Morgan probably could play 3-4 OLB, but he's horrible in coverage and he's been dominant with his hand in the ground. No reason to force him out of his comfort zone. Joe Pawelek is just over 240...maybe. He's a tackling machine, but he benefited from playing behind a HUGE defensive line. All of his success came out of the 4-3. The guy's a super productive college player, but I don't see his success translating well. He's a late rounder...maybe. Pat Angerer weighs in the low 230s. He's destined to play inside in the 4-3. I really like the Iowa linebackers in this year's draft, but Angerer is definitely undersized for the 3-4. Navorro Bowman weighs under 230 pounds. I don't know how you can say he has excellent size for the 3-4. Bowman is a great talent, but he's built to play 4-3 OLB in a Cover 2 scheme. Darryl Sharpton is short and he's light. The guy's a sideline-to-sideline roamer. That wouldn't be his job in the 3-4. He wouldn't be able to fly around like he does. Like Bowman, he fits best into 4-3 Tampa 2 scheme. Maxwell has good size, but he's slow and he's shown nothing as a pass rusher. NOTHING. You also said Sean Weatherspoon could play in the 3-4 and that's not true. He's a great talent, but he's a guy that relies on speed to make plays. I said D'Imperio had good size... He's still pretty weak for a guy with decent size and he has below average bulk. It doesn't matter who he played for. I like Harbaugh a lot too, but that has nothing to do with Lorig playing end in the 3-4. I think he'll go undrafted. Read up.
Besides DeMarcus Ware, name me a guy currently (or formerly) playing DE/OLB that was praised for their ability to drop into coverage as a prospect. Almost all those guys are college DEs, and have very little to no experience dropping into coverage. Brandon Graham can/will struggle in coverage. Doesn't mean much. - Over 240 is fine. - He'd hopefully benefit from the same thing (big DL) as a pro, like any happy LB in any system. - Alot of 3-4 players in college have alot of success in the 4-3. It's the popular D, that will happen. - What round he goes in clearly has on impact on him making this list. The later he goes the better for everyone. Undersized doesn't make him incapable. Angerer, like almost everyone on Iowa, is a very stout player. His weight isn't anything the NFL can't handle, if it really needs adjusting. He's a well rounded, smart player...3-4 teams like those guys. Bowman is on the list for a few reasons: - He's 3 months older than me. I'm guessing I'll be able to put on weight in my lifetime. My guess is that he'll be able to do so too, especially since he'll be somewhere where that happens alot. - He's really athletic. - I may not trust a Penn State DT, but I'll take a LB. He can tackle, he can blitz, and he plays the run alright. At 21 there's obviously still tons of upside. Yea...people said the same thing about Tavares Gooden. Sharpton still plays like a LB from the U. I hold many of the same size biases you hold, the difference being that I've seen some of these guys play while you seem to just be focused on their size. So? Why's it all about being a pass rusher? He's EXCELLENT as a coverage LB. You're telling me a 3-4 coach couldn't figure out something to do with a 248 pound LB who came up with 6 INTs and 7 PD in the SEC? Ooooooook. The man is 245 pound and obviously has more than speed on his side to be considered such a good prospect. In college he could blitz, drop into coverage, and was one of Mizzou's best players against the run. Not my favorite prospect for 3-4 ILB, but certainly capable of it if he were to be drafted by a 3-4 team. That he does. Dude, he's a likely UDFA. What position did you see Mike DeVito playing for us when we signed him? Lorig is one of the least important names on a list of 60+...What he does offer is a workable frame (6'4 275) and a strong pedigree (well coached, obviously Stanford is a decent school to attend). Read up.
The guys I listed are 4-3 defenders, and it's obvious that they are. There's no way to convince you of anything. No one except for you is claiming that Sean Weatherspoon, Darryl Sharpton, and Pat Angerer are big enough to play in the 3-4. No one. Go make some more threads for attention.
You always make statements like this as if this cements the fact that you're right and anyone who disagrees is wrong. You did the same thing with Tate/Gilyard...rather arrogant if you ask me. I can do the same thing though: The guys you listed are 4-3 defenders, but it's quite obvious that so were many 3-4 NFL players in college. They are not limited to one scheme, especially since they've all displayed versatile skillsets that can fit a variety of schemes. And tons of people are claiming those guys you listed can play a 3-4...the fact that they're all late round prospects (except Morgan, who you quickly said could play in a 3-4) who won't go high just means they're not being talked about, period. When's the last time you heard anyone even mention Sharpton? Sam Maxwell? Do you see anyone using a 1 or a 2 or even a 3 on Angerer? And nice little comment at the end. I'm shocked to see you take a civil discussion down a notch. You're usually so in-control of your emotions here in your WAR ROOM. How about you make the thread for me so that it's formatted correctly and done to your tastes and what you approve of? Once again Electric, saying something is obvious doesn't make it true. I'm not even sure how it's obvious anyway. What scheme did you think Danell Ellerbe could play in last year? He was a LB from LSU.
Golden Tate is a better receiving prospect than Mardy Gilyard. You'll never, ever win that debate. Derrick Morgan will get drafted in the top ten as a 4-3 defensive end. He's a talented player, but he'll be the best in the 4-3. Ton of people say Pat Angerer can play in the 3-4? Prove that shit. Darryl Sharpton is a 4-3 linebacker - he's a poor man's Jon Beason. As for Sam Maxwell, I watch a ton of SEC football, but you'll claim that doesn't matter. Just like you claimed you knew more about South Carolina football than I did - which is one of the most retarded things I've ever heard on this board. Sam Maxwell is a 4-3 linebacker. He can't play outside in the 3-4 - because he can't rush the passer. He's great in coverage, like you said. Versatile skillsets? ...seriously? I'm not saying that because they play in a certain scheme in college that they can't play in a new one - it's just that certain players are meant to play in a specific scheme. Angerer, Sharpton, and Weatherspoon are built to play in the 4-3. Jon Vilma is built to play in the 4-3. James Farrior is built to play in the 3-4. Civil discussion? Are you kidding me? I wasn't the one taking little cheap shots at the end of each post - "I am merely a grasshopper compared to you sensei. You, who knows all, must tell me who these guys are and why they can't play in a 3-4."
Actually, Dannell Ellerbe played at UGA. He was super productive in college too. He wasn't drafted because he was undersized, but he was a hell of a role player in the Ravens' defense. I'm not exactly sure about this, but I think he was a four year starter for one of the better defenses in the SEC? You know he didn't line up in the 3-4 that much with the Ravens, right? He came in on passing situations mostly (when the Ravens used 4 down linemen)...and you know who came out? Tavares Gooden. Are you thinking about Darry Beckwith? He played at LSU and he was too small to play in the 3-4. He didn't get drafted and I think he's on the Chargers' practice squad.
Lol. Whatever you say, man. I see that's how it works here anyway. Gilyard is still years ahead of Tate as a WR, and it'll show early on. He's also quicker, faster, has better hands, runs better routes, and played the lead role on an offense for a longer period of time. OK? Doesn't mean he can't play in a 3-4, and you admitted so much yourself. Can't. Nothing on the internet. At least nothing I'm going to find with the minimal searching I just did. Still doesn't mean he can't. Put Joe Beason in a 3-4 and he's David Harris. I have on idea why you insist on locking guys into systems...He and Harris have the same size, tackle ridiculously well, lead their teams, can blitz, can cover, and play the run extremely well. Lol, I never claimed that I knew more about South Carolina than you insecure....aye...There's two other fucking spots that aren't OLB in a 3-4. It's a 3-4. All of these guys can play 3-4 ILB. It's quite obvious that none of them are 3-4 OLB. Yes. That would be the ability to tackle well, play the run, drop into coverage, and make plays behind the LOS. Uuuuuuum....OK. You have a point, but you have no idea how to explain it. What makes them "built to play in the 4-3" vs. the 3-4? What are they doing differently that locks them simply into being 4-3 players? All these guys are stouter LBers than Vilma ever was, and even then Vilma has become a much better and stronger player over the years. I don't think he'd embarrass himself in a 3-4 now at all. It didn't help back in '06 and '07 that he was injured...in '07 he was on one knee. Hell, even if you want to guess that Weatherspoon isn't as stout as Vilma, then at 6'2 240 he's certainly got the change to grow up to be so. But I truly am a mere grasshopper when compared to you? :grin:
Just random thoughts: I think Weatherspoon could be a very good ILB in a 34, kind of in the Patrick Willis mold. A guy that is smart, fast, but built so solid that he could still excel in a system that he has to take on blockers. Spoon is a well put together 245, and has some running back thighs. In 34s linebackers really have to be, above all else, good fundamental players, and I think Spoon is just that. Also, Daryl Sharpton is a squatty guy, and I don't think could add the weight or strength to ever play in a 3-4. That, and he's just not smart or fundamentally skilled enough. He kind of sucks. T-Good at least stepped his game up his senior year, along with being a more lean guy for the 225 he was weighing at as a Cane.
Fail. No, they don't. David Harris: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8301 6'2 245 Jon Beason: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8279 6'0 237 Beason is a 4-3 linebacker...always has been, always will be. Harris is a 3-4 linebacker...always has been, always will be. Yeah, they both have a shit ton of tackles, but they do it differently. They play completely different styles of football. Sam Maxwell is a coverage linebacker. That's not the only thing you look for in a 3-4 'backer. He's got 4-3 written all over him. He doesn't fit at ANY linebacker spot in the 3-4. Like I said earlier in this thread, Kentucky's Micah Johnson has the size and strength to be a beast inside in the 3-4...I just wish he wasn't so banged up all the time. What don't you get? These guys are able to play against the run at the college level because they don't have to take blockers head on. Guys like Sharpton and Angerer will get eaten alive by NFL linemen. They need space to do damage. I'm not saying they won't be successful linebackers in the NFL - they just won't be successful 3-4 linebackers in the NFL. Sharpton and Angerer are both smaller than Jon Vilma was coming out of college. I shouldn't have to explain that. You're a fucking Jets' fan, right? You saw what happened to Jonathan Vilma when we switched to the 3-4. He wasn't able to do the same things. He couldn't roam freely and make plays. He couldn't shed blocks well. You have to be able to take on blockers. Bart Scott played a huge role in David Harris' success. The guy was basically a battering ram against blockers this season. He let Harris do his job. Undersized linebackers do not work well in this system. That's a fact. Vilma played in every single game in 2006, and it was obvious the 3-4 wasn't a good fit at all. His production was cut in half in the 3-4 - 2005: 128 solo tackles in the 4-3 2006: 68 solo tackles in the 3-4 He only played 7 games in 2007. It sucked that he got injured...but don't use that as an excuse as to why he wasn't effective in the 3-4.
True. Sharpton isn't as big nor as strong as Tavares Gooden, and Gooden rose enough to make himself a 3rd rounder for a team that knows their LBers. That said, he's a stout dude and can be an extra LB in any scheme...I don't see starting potential like I saw with Gooden.
Hey, you've failed worse with me. Maybe you can play the Samari Rolle card soon! Yes, because they play in a 4-3 and a 3-4 respectively right now. Beason would more than hold his own a 3-4, and Harris would more than hold his own in a 4-3. Beason is one of the most stout MLBers in the league... No, they really don't. They're really stout LBers who do it all...no different brand just different teams and different assignments. Wtf? Who said it is? With his size and this league's affinity with passing a 3-4 team will probably be interested. Yes, he does fit a LB spot in the 3-4. A guy who weighs close to 250, can play LB, and can do enough to get 6 INTs at LBs in the SEC is going to draw interest from a bunch of teams. And lol...you're really breaking down with that Micah Johnson comment. Angerer can and has taken on blocks. Not extremely well, but I wouldn't expect a 4th or 5th round LB to excel in that area as a rookie. Sharpton...eh...solid...can make a team as an extra LB. Not a ton of upside anyway. He could probably still handle a 3-4 team, especially one with a good DL. OK...never said you said they can't be successful. And once again, yes they can play in a 3-4...especially Maxwell. Sharpton yes, Angerer no. That was 4 years ago. Vilma's gotten stronger since then. Believe it or not...and I realize I might be revolutionizing your thought process (hopefully)...but guys do develop in the NFL...yes, that's right...some guys will be different players than they are/were as prospects/rookies. David Harris is as much of a thumper as Scott is, if not moreso. That is true. Besides for Sharpton, I don't think any of these guys are truly, 100% undersized for the 3-4. Even then, Sharpton has a compact build that makes him more stout than his weight suggests. True. It was a shitty time for him. Now he's healthy, he's easily gained 10 pounds since he was drafted and weighs a legit 230 (probably 235), and the Saints now use him around the LOS as well as in space. Why not? One year isn't a trend. For the draft guru you attempt to paint yourself as I find it stunning how you ignore how the role projection, development, and growth all play into the draft and their future NFL careers.
