Not that Tebow is good, but you do realize that there are only 11 people on offense and you named pretty much half of them are new. It is a different offense and Manning runs it good, why is there an argument here. The team is even different on defense with a new coordinator. What is the problem with new personel or is just you are trtying to prove it is the same team and better with Manning? Well, even if it was it would be.
Comparing Percy Harvin and Aaron Hernandez to Stokley and Tamme is flat out hysterical. Everyone is now dumber for reading the first part of your post. First off: - We are the #4 overall defense, not #12. - We have exactly 1 new starter on defense, in rookie Derek Wolfe. Now that that is settled, lets look at what has really changed, shall we? - We no longer have a quarterback that leads the league in 3-and-outs, and our defense can actually rest in between possessions. - Our opponents are averaging 2.5 fewer possessions/game because we are no longer punting 8 times/game. - Our defense is now able to pin its ears back, and be aggressive, because we have a quarterback that puts up points early in games, and gets us a lead, instead of one that shits the bed for the first 55 minutes of every game. And you were trying to call others out about stupid statements? Get a grip man.
Half of them? 10 guys Tebow and Manning have to work with. I see about 3 changes. The fourth one being due to injury about 5 or 6 weeks into the year. the reason I bring it up, was that the excuse machine for Tebow was in full force. It was bad receivers, an offensive line that couldn't block, and coaches that couldn't call plays. ...enter Manning with a few changes (which happen every year) and suddenly a lot of these guys getting hammered by the Tebowmaniacs last year and STILL this year look pretty darn good. They went from dead last in production with Mr. Inspiration and determination, to one of the league's best. The Tebow apologists almost sound like one of those beer league softball players that insist they could have gone ot the major leagues, but got screwed because of some A-hole coach. Always someone elses fault. Personally I find it amazing what happens to a team when they get a real QB in there. Hope the Jets do something similar next offseason. The fans deserve it.
Any team deserves a good QB, that is the point. Of course they are better with Manning, but they also won with Tebow. I dont see the point in the arguments as they went to the playoffs last year and going again this year. If I take a plane or a train I can still get to the same destination, with Manning it is only quicker. These cats like Tebow, what is the big deal and why travel to another site to knock them? It accomplishes nothing, but both parties looking dumb.
Still clinging to that #20 life preserver are we? Be honest. Tell me how many of Tebow's wins came with 15 points allowed or less. Then tell me the record for most teams when they allow that much. Look up Kyle Orton's win/loss record when that happens.... (Hell, I'll tell ya again since it hasn't sunk in how EASY it is for even a shitty QB to win a game like that. He was 23-2, most of that with Chicago's defense.) Now explain to me how none of those wins would have come to be with Orton or almost every starter in the league and maybe half the backups. Frankly, I'm surprised it was as high as #20 with Tebow having the punter trot out there every 2 minutes. Not hard for most of us to see who was doing the heavy lifting in those games. Wasn't tebow.
since you always ask nicely... Well, it's like this... Playoffs or not... Every franchise STILL has to examine WHY they won and if it is sustainable. looking back, was it Tebow? If so, why not keep the guy that was supposedly the shot in the arm everyone needed to produce, and salvage a 1-4 season into a playoff appearance. A big picture look would see a defense that held teams to 15 points or less 6 times after the QB change was made. One reason was that the schedule got easier, but that was still pretty good for Denver when for the last 3 or 4 seasons prior they were used to seeing the defense allow close to 30 points per game as an AVERAGE. Wasn't uncommon to see teams get into the 40s, and a few occaisions even into the 50s. The Chargers did it in the last game of a season to win the division (getting Shannahan fired) and the Raiders did it a couple years later. Every team asks themselves, should I stay the course or should we head into a different direction. They could say, "hey, tebow got us to the playoffs." But then they examine how we got there, and after countless hours of watching him in practice and seeing his performance in the first 3 1/2 quarters... it starts to look to most people capable of firing off more than three brain cells that the Broncos may have pulled that off in spite of Tebow. Sure, he brought a bit of an edge into the 4th quarter for the comeback, but that was only possible if the defense bailed him out of the hole he dug them in to begin with due to extremely poor production. Not hard to see why they chose to move one. It's one thing to say, "well, Manning is better, no shame in losing your job to him." True, but the Broncos ALSO decided the next day that the team was better off with this young player who still hadn't reached his potential playing somewhere other than the Broncos. They didn't even seem to care what they got for him. A 4th rounder for a kid that supposedly led a crappy team to the playoffs? You'd think a guy like that would command more respect around the league. STILL riding on the bench behind a guy that stunk it up all year? No, it's looking more like they won in spite of him. Seems to be the consensus around the league or else teams would be offering their first born for a chance to have Tebow save their team from mediocrity. Sell a lot of tickets and jerseys too. I mean, people LOVE this guy.
Figures you would miss the point being that Manning is familiar with those receivers and has history/chemistry with them in the same way that Tebow did with his receivers at Florida. Great, makes my point even better. Are you forgetting the new D Coordinator? I got the #12 number from Pro Football Reference yesterday, a fantastic and exhaustive stats site. Looks like the results of the weekend's NFL games moved Denver up to #5 as of today, according to their site. Question of the year, when you find out the answer, please share with the crowd. #20? What are you talking about? We've been over all this - a bunch. I'm interested in a dialogue about it, you're only interested in a monologue about it. You're a completely broken record, when anyone brings up a valid point that doesn't agree with your opinion, you just ignore it. Sorry, waste of my time trying to have a dialogue when all you want to do is hear yourself talk. I'm not going to re-hash everything again that you ignored the first dozen times I posted it.
Are you SERIOUS!?!? Haven't you and your fellow Tebowkistanis been harping on that defensive ranking being around 20th and insisting it wasn't the defense carrying the Broncos last year? Yeah the defense is better this year. Why? Because the offense gives them more than a 2 minute break. The offense actually puts them in a position to play with the lead, which almost never happened last year. defensive numbers get worse and worse the longer they are on the field. Even when fighting like mad to stay in the game, if they are on the field for 3 more extra drives in a game, it's GONNA take their toll. They're gonna look pretty lousy when the offense is punting the ball back to Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady every 4th play, that's for sure. It really isn't a hard concept to understand and I can't figure out why Tebowners really struggle with it.
First D9, now JFjets. You both love to ignore these exact same lines, so I'll post them again: Now that that is settled, lets look at what has really changed, shall we? - We no longer have a quarterback that leads the league in 3-and-outs, and our defense can actually rest in between possessions. - Our opponents are averaging 2.5 fewer possessions/game because we are no longer punting 8 times/game. - Our defense is now able to pin its ears back, and be aggressive, because we have a quarterback that puts up points early in games, and gets us a lead, instead of one that shits the bed for the first 55 minutes of every game.
I don't think anyone is shocked the broncos are doing better with probably the best qb to ever play the game, so would every other team pretty much. About being affected, maybe its not the best word, but just by reading both of you guys posts, its seems you are a lot more angry or worked up by his none aggressive post then pro tebow guys are to the OP's. The OP's post was specifically aimed to work up the pro tebow guys as well. If you look up any thread in here you will see that the most passionate and heated responses are always from the anti tebow crowd. You guys care more then we do.
I doubt it. Most of the emotionally charged namecalling and attempts to turn things personal came from the Tebowners. I did respond to some of it, but they kept at it even when I made it clear I wasn't going to play that game.
No, it was ranked 24th best defense, actually, not 20th. Kind of like when Denver was down 31-7 against the Patriots, 21-5 against the Texans, and 20-0 against the Falcons this year, with Peyton Manning under center? Kind of like that? You know, it's funny you should say that, because in Denver's first game against the Patriots last year, they had a 40% 3rd down conversion rate and exactly two 3 and out's. In the playoff game against the Patriots, Denver had more 3 and out's than the first game, but still had a 39% 3rd down conversion rate. So, what were you saying about the defense? 3 and outs are not a solid predictor of wins and losses. Actually, it was an average of 6.8/game, not 8, but who's counting, certainly not you.... Kind of like when Denver was down 31-7 against the Patriots, 21-5 against the Texans, and 20-0 against the Falcons this year, with Peyton Manning under center? Kind of like that?
Denver's defense is different, they have a better D coordinator in Jack Del Rio, they got rid of Andre Goodman, who got torched and can't tackle. Wesley Woodyard is better than DJ Williams. Adams and Rahim Moore are better than Quinton Carter (can't forget about Jim Leonard). They should be better, especially with a lead, though I think teams can still grash them with the run. That NE loss last year in the playoffs was mostly on the D. They couldn't stop anyone.
Yep, you're right, I forgot about that one. They were down 24-0 before they pooped the bed and let the Broncos back in the game. That makes 30% of their games so far this year where they were down by double digits halfway through the game. So much for that whole "scoring points early and fast and giving the defense a break" thing with Manning, huh?
Have you WATCHED any bronco games this year? Yeah, they fell behind early a few times, so what? It was extremely rare to see the Broncos play with the lead last year. punted the ball all day. Are you suggesting nothing changed about the team? Absolutely the defense gets a break now. Not trotting out there after every third or 4th play becuase your hero shit the bed again.
Yep, more than half. Dude, get your panties out of a wad. Phaytal suggested that with Manning they are always playing from ahead now. I just pointed out that that wasn't remotely true. You got an issue, take it up with him.
