Chad was ALOT better than KC during the regular season. ut if we find out KC isn't the guy we'll be wasting another season. We do know what we have in Chad and if we can upgradearound him(specifically the OL) then we know we'll have a chance to be a playoff team. Let them fight for it, if KC has shown enough progress throuhg next preseason he'll earn theshot, if not go back to Chad. The D was also brutal the 1st half of the year when Chad was starting plus the Ol was brutal(though they were brutal the entire year). Chad played alot better than Clemens, other factors around him helped him lose so many games. prior to this year Chad was known for winning, it's hard to give up on a guy b/c of 1 half of a bad season. There's a very short lifespan for coaches and GMs, they can't afford to blow another year. if KC starts and we win 4-5 games again then those guys are done. Chad didn't play himllef out of the lineup, he was the scape goat but as we clearly saw he wasn't the main problem. They gave KC a chance b/c the season was lost but at the en of the year Chad played much better than KC did. in '02 Chad led us to a div title and led the NFL in passing while Vinny was around 40 years old, his time around KC did nothing to prove he can handle the job and Chad is still relatively young. Why did we need hose 2 minute drills? b/c KC was awful for 50+ minutes. Chad was MUCH better than Clemens. Chad had just 10 more attempts but 5 more TDs, 1 less INT, a higher YPA, an 86 rating compared to 60, 200 more yards, almost 50 more completions. Chad was not good this year but Clemens was awul, when browning Nagle's #s come out as a comparison that is not good. if Chad in '02 stunk Vinny would have deserved a chance to win the job back in 2003. Chad deserves another shot, we need to upgrade the OL and w/ Chad we'll be a playoff caliber team again. Dropped passes only count for KC? the huge cles drops against NYG and Phllymeant noting? the drops in NE meant nothing? allthe peanlties and drops at Buf meant nothing? KC played brutal football for 3+ qtrs at Baltmiore, he wasn't good against Wash after a good start, he was bad against Cleveland. Chad was ALOT better than KC. So that's why they droped passes? what was the reason for the players dropping Chad's passes then? He did? Leon led us to a 31-13 lead? He had a TD return good for only 7 points. Chad led us to the other 24 and a comfotoble 4th qtr lead that the D almost blew. Not most people who watch and understand football. Chad is far from done and I think he showed that against 2 goodteams down the stretch. The choices are get rid of Chad ad bring in a Sage Rosenfels type to backup Clemens. Not very attractive, I guarantee you Chad will be a starter somewhere if thejets trade or release him. If that's the case then why did Kellen end up w/ more interceptions than Chad?(and half as many TDs) :beer:
No, he wasn't. If he was we would not be having these discussions. The fact is that Clemens for all his inexperience was comparable enough to what we got from Chad, that there is no clear indication of one outperforming the other. And given that the fact that Clemens upside leads you to believe that he can play like he did at the end of the baltimore game and Chad clearly cannot, makes Clemens the better choice to go forward. Thats not "MUCH" better thats marginally better IF the two QBs are roughly equal going in. But one guy is in his first six starts, and the other is in his sixth season, that should tell you something... Yes, he did. But it wasn't his fault, and thats really the issue. He had a high ankle sprain, and the coaching staff had no business letting him back on the field after the Baltimore game. They should have had the fortitude, to take their lumps THEN, while he healed, and got him back on the field around the bye week. That decision, and that decision alone is why we have a lost season. I cannot reiterate that enough. It the same exact mistake Joe Walton made at 10-1, in 1986, refusing to go to Pat Ryan, with 5 games to go, and chance to lock up home playoff games.....
Agreed, it is more up to KC proving he deserves to play, and if they actually throw the ball downfield in TC and pre-season, he will be in a better position to win the job. If they scrap the vertical offense and continue to use dink and dunk from day one, CP will look like the better QB.
Evertime I am done with arguing about who is better on this forum, we now are on page 7. If you think Chad is better then go ahead and keep writing this BS. Chad SUCKED in pre-season and KC was the one that was better and they still put Chad in. KC was better through the season, but if you think Chad was better, then you are brain washed and watching totally different games then I was. Everybody wanted Chad to come back after all of his injuries, but he never had full strength in his arm. Stop blaming the OL for his 5 yard dumps. It's time to move on, if he starts next year, then we are just wasting time again, because I give Miami 2 years and they will be competing again. WTF
Don't they throw the ball downfield in TC though? I can't imagine that all they do is throw 5 yard passes. Even if they did (do) I still believe KC should be able to prove himself regardless. He can throw the ball 40 yards, but he can't toss it 5? It's about execution. I hope that the time under fire this year in live games helps him develop some composure. It should help him out in TC preparing. He should look even better than he did last year.
No. He wasn't. He played in more games, and has played in more games up to this point in his career. He has experience. You can't generalize that KC was awful the entire game until the last 2/3rds of the 4th quarter. Chad had plenty of 2 minute drills that he completely bombed and sealed the deal for the other team this year. Because by the time they got there, they were actually disinterested in catching them. And I'm not positive but since Chad had Coles for most of his starts, and they have a solidified relationship, I'm going to say that the receivers dropped far fewer per game when Chad was playing, since Chad wasn't downgraded to McCareins/Smith as often. How in the world is 6 points versus the Titans 2 picks 1 TD showing he's got some left in the tank? If we get to our backup that means we've given up on Kellen's progress and our season will be F'd anyway. We don't really need the best backup in the league at this point. We don't have a good team with an oft injured QB. That was us before 07. Becaaaaause, Kellen takes chances like Chad did here and tries to fit it in windows, which isn't the most effective way of playing QB when you're green like he is, but once he gets experience, and understands where the holes will be and what throws he has to make, it will be far more effective than dink and dunk.
Well, once again, you can keep throwing the unintelligent synonyms at me, or you can just face the fact that you made an excuse. Thanks for not throwing a capital letter temper tantrum. Kellen played with the same line, same D, less receivers. He produced more wins. Even if you take out Chad's losses to the Patriots, which are understandable. 1-6, 3-4. Then you have to take out the Dolphins wins because those were like taking candy from a baby this season. 0-6, 2-4. Although Miami didn't come close to beating us with Kellen at the helm. Sure, you can keep thinking of the Cinci game where the D really let us down. Don't forget though that EVERYONE scored on Cinci this year, with the exception of a few games late in the season (one where they beat the Titans 35-6) wow, that's almost the same result as Chad. Keep thinking of the Cinci/Giants games where the D "blew it". I will keep thinking of the pick Chad threw in the Cinci game to seal the deal, all we needed was a FG to win but instead it got returned for a TD, otherwise 14 pts in a qtr is going to happen sometimes to a D. Giants game-we needed a TD, but instead pick in the 4th, returned for TD. Philly he was entrusted with a pass on 4th and 1 and couldn't complete it. Bills game-pick in the 4th. Kellen got sacked more times in his fewer starts than Chad did all year. So does that mean that the line really blew while Kellen was in there? No, we played better pass rushing teams. The excuse of D for Kellen and not for Chad doesn't hold much water. We still gave up 34 points to Dallas, and let Portis have his best rushing game of the season. Then there was a bad weather Pats game where they were inhibited by the weather, but Chad benefited from that. That factors in to the D's numbers. The D had good games in points all across the season, and Kellen wasn't the only one benefitting from it. How much sense does that make, really? Kellen won more games only because of the D? Not because he found ways to SCORE more than those other teams. Pitt #1 in the league still, after the season. The KC game we had 45 rushing attempts. I'm pretty sure passing wasn't the focus. But still he threw for +50% (can't say that for Croyle), and a TD.
That is a bad argument. Crediting Clemens as the reason the Jets beat the Dolphins, Chiefs, or Steelers is crazy. It was all defense. Clemens' best game was actually a quarter. The 4th one, Week 2.
Clemens game against Miami was the highest point total we had all year, against Pitt it was the 5th highest point total all year and Pennington put less points on the board 3 times than Clemens did in the KC game. What Clemens did in the Pitt game was lead the team back and to victory, he didn't throw a pick 6 in the 4th quarter the same was true in the KC game. He was clearly better against Miami than Chad was.
Chad hit the bench for a reason. He played himself there. Kellen outplayed him in preseason and he still got handed the job. Kellen won the job in camp that was given to Chad at the beginning of the season. Chad then turned around and lost it and faced the Bills twice, Cincy-swiss cheese defense, Giants-swiss cheese secondary in a game he did not get sacked in and the Eagles. Chad has done nothing to show he should be allowed to remain a Jet!
Okay, you guys made good points. The Steelers game was an impressive win by Clemens. The bottom line is both QBs pretty much sucked, part of it due to the O-line. Is the QB competition really coming down to these 2 guys though? I would prefer another veteran to compete. I don't know who though, not many choices out there.
You do realize if he said we are going in another direction Chad would have 0 trade value right? We can probably get a #4 and Maybe even a 3 for Chad.
Again where did he say he wanted Chad back? He said I will entertain trade offers and I expect him back. The guy is under contract, why would he expect him back? He also said I don't see the economics driving any decission right now. The key words being right now. Right now and expect doesn't mean he will be back. The only thing he did say is if he is back Mangini will decide who plays and who doesn't play, but it will be on who gives the team the best chance to win. He also said he expects him to compete with Kellen. Again he didn't say he would compete with Kellen for the starting job. All that really says to me is if Chad isn't traded and we don't have an economic need at some point we can bring Chad back. If Chad is on the team we expect him to compete with Kellen but it's Mangini's decission. Mangini has already decided that Kellen gives the Jets the best chance to win since after he was healthy and Chad was healthy he played Clemens. I still don't see where Tannenbaum has clearly stated that Chad will be back and compete for the starting job. It's clear the way he spoke that no decissions at all have been made.
Well of course in January all you can do is say what you expect to happen in July, but he answered the questions people were asking about Chad and the cap. For an organization that tells you very little he gave as straight an answer as he could six months before camp. He could have just given a non-answer, it wouldn't have been the first time. There's always the slim chance another guy like a Vinny (circa 1998) could unexpectedly drop into your lap, but going on what we know and see out there as of now, this is what it looks like. Certainly a lot more concrete evidence than anything you can come up with to support your idea that he's a goner.
I don't think so. If they really wanted Chad back to compete with Clemens and thought the real problem was other parts of the O and they wanted to close the book on trades or Chads future the answer would have been a little more like this. We love our QB situation. Chad is a solid veteran and Clemens is a young guy we see a great future in. We realize we have to have a better supporting cast. Hopefully management can get that done so they both have an opprotunity to come to camp, compete and lead this team next year. By the way the fact that he didn't do that leads me to believe they not only don't think that highly of Chad but they may be less high on Clemens? It wouldn't shock me if Chad is gone and Clemens is the back up to someone else next year without getting a chance to compete? I think Tanny left all options on the table and certainly didn't give a vote of coinfidence to the Jets two QB's.
Here is how I KNOW that the Jets FO does not have confidence in Chad. In the NE game, they used Smith a lot in the friggin option instead of using Chad. This is just trade posturing.
So if he doesn't say exactly what you would say then you must be right? Ok. Looks like a case of you believing what you want to believe. Mangini did say all those things about both QBs in his post game press conferences the last few weeks, and he certainly has input. Tanenbaum's job is to keep his options open, again it sounds from his comments like both guys are coming back to compete for the job barring the unforseen. But I'm guessing he could come to your house and tell you that himself and you still are set in your beliefs, so what's the point? I gave you the quotes you asked for from the source you wanted.
