The 2009 defense is the best Jets defense I’ve ever seen. Teams got mauled up the middle and their #1 receiver was erased. 2010 was a major drop off but they were still a top 10 defense. Mark had a significantly better OL and 2 playmakers at WR in 2009, but in 2010 he had so many options it was hard to believe. Sanchez situation was much better but the more they asked him to do, the worse the team became. I don’t fully blame him. The league figured Rex out in 2010 and the team was gifted a playoff birth by Indy that season. Then the team played up to the level of competition come playoff time.
Honestly, I love these threads, and again, thanks for kicking them off each week! I’m not one to say we need a hardline definite standard to label someone a stud or a dud…it’s a subjective opinion and it generates a lot of fun and great debate, so that’s my take. That being said, I kind of like to think of it in terms of … just watch the game and you can pretty much feel who stands out and flashes multiple times, and who has a few really bad plays. You don’t need to overanalyze, you don’t really even need to check the box score…just watch the game and use the eye test. Most of the time, it’s pretty clear and obvious to most of us who was a stud or a dud. So to me, if you have to go on a long dissertation and pick out minutia to support an argument either way (Stud or Dud), then probably the player was neither and he was just ok. But the grading on a curve and just saying relative to how a player has done before does not qualify for either stud or dud. To me. So for example, in no way would I watch that game and watch our QB play and say, man our QB was awesome today…what a stud! No way. Can’t do it. He couldn’t score, he never saw open receivers, etc. Again. We won the game, which is the main thing, but we didn’t win it BECAUSE of him…we won it because our defense played great, got some turnovers, and while they bent a bit, in the end, they held strong, And we won it because Breece ripped off a 70+ yard run and scored…because had he not scored, Zach wasn’t getting the ball into the end zone. He had so many other tries and couldn’t do it. Against a defense that is literally the worst in the league. Justin Fields, who’s been every bit as bad as Zach, put up 400 yards on this D. Miami put up 70 fucking points on this D. Zach couldn’t put up even one single TD. Not a one. So yah, did he not fuck it up? Sure. But to me, that’s not a stud. That’s just a guy. Anyway…that’s my take. Regardless, I love these threads and I love the debate. Thanks for making them!
Zach is held to different standards because he's the leader of the offense. Even hand offs can't happen without him. He helped lead the team to a win. Better play calling in the red zone and the Denver game game isn't close.
becuase he's still better then some QBs. nathan peterman is still in the NFL. do casual fans not realize the lack of talent at QB in the NFL?
I might put a Darnold vs Wilson comparison through 26 games together later. I think Darold would get the win and be had Adam Gase.
what matters is now, not years ago. if he sucks the rest of this year, then goes out and throws 5k yards and 50TDs in year 4 do you think anyone gives a flying fuck about his 1st 3 seasons? it's all about what you can do now not what you did. dalvon cook was a beast 3 years ago, really good 2 years ago, just solid last year, now washed up.
You guys hate the past because it’s not at all favorable to your…we’ll call it “defense” of Zach Wilson. You defend this quarterback who eats shit for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and act like he’s going to turn into Morimoto and all will be forgiven. Where do you people work? I know I’d get bored but it might be nice to work at a place where I can do whatever the fuck I want but I’ll never lose my job because after I’ve done it it’s in the past.
uhhh yeah, ok. Solid point. When Zach Wilson sets the all time passing record we will forget about his first 3 seasons, that's really next level thinking there.
it's not relevant. if you are poor right now. then hit the lotto today and are rich, does it matter you were poor the day before when you go to buy something?
he's obviously not going to do that, but if he can play well enough to get us to the playoffs i'd call it a win. we aren't winning a SB with zach, but sanchez was just as bad and made 2 AFC champ games. we can't change who the QB is. rodgers is the QB for next year but for now this is what we got and he's not playing awful so IDK why everyone is pissed.
Until the Jets win a super bowl, or at least end the playoff drought, the past will be negative. It's not really relevant to the future though. We can go all the way back the 70s & 80s and most of it was bad. Yes, Zach needs to show more to prove himself, but that book is still unwritten.
Your past shapes a lot of who you are, or at least, it’s very often the case that it does. People can and absolutely do change, but there’s a reason people use the term “baggage” when referring to other people. Their past follows them. If a druggie won the mega millions they might very well just buy a lot of drugs (until they OD or someone robs/murders them). A hoarder might just continue to hoard because they can’t shed that part of who they are. They might do the opposite and start support groups or charities, who the knows? Nobody, until it happens. It’s hasn’t happened for Wilson at this point. Find any mid tier team that would consider Wilson an upgrade. I don’t think you’ll find one. Wilson is a bad quarterback until he’s not. That’s his past and his present. That can not be disputed based on his play up to this point. He’s not a stud according to anyone but you and that’s because you’ve set a low bar for “stud” at quarterback. Stay off the “relative to” shit. A stud is a stud.
except wilsons past is simply he doesn't process fast enough and his mechanics were bad. it's not a character flaw. drug addicts stay that way because in the end they choose to as well as a chemical dependance. zach wants to be good. he works hard, he's coach-able. he has all the physical tools. geno is an outlier but he was a backup for like 8 years, finally got a 2nd chance to start and made a pro bowl. If you want to do the drug analogy, plenty of people are addicts, go to rehab, and kick the habit and become normal contributing members of society. it just takes the will to want to. zach has the will. nobody is saying he isn't a bad QB, what we are saying is the past 2 games he's a lot better then he was the 1st 20 or so games in his career. he went from by and far the worst starter to probably better then 10 Qbs currently. I'm sure learning from rodgers has helped him a ton and mahomes don't fall off trees. thats why they are special. he'll never be mahomes and we'll likely replace him, but he's a backup QB who has to start due to injury who is playing better then some starters. thats lightyears better then when he was a starter and by and far the worst one. rodgers is the QB next year, we already know that. 2025 could be anyone, could be rodgers again, could be a rookie, maybe we draft a rookie to sit behind rodgers IDK but expecting your backup to come in and be a top 10 QB is redicilous
