Going to go ahead and disagree with you here... Stephen Hill was targeted 59 times. Geno Smith threw 243 balls to the sidelines.... Explain to me how having a under 50% completion ratio on the rest of the 184 attempts were Stephen Hills fault?? It's a known fact that Geno struggled all year getting the ball to the WR on the outside. Not sure how you can disagree with that here.
23 / 59 - 452 yds - 1TD - Holmes was the only WR with worse stats then Hill which again goes to show how much Geno struggled throwing the ball outside the numbers. If you take away the Buffalo game and his stats get really bad. ( 18 / 49 - 302 yds - 0TD )
Ouch. Looking at that list hurts. The easy answer is that Geno and Hill struggled and were inconsistent thus leading to poor play in both Geno and Hill. Neither one is a spectacular player being brought down by the other. Hill in himself has shown very little excitement while other receivers like Kerley, Nelson, Holmes, etc became key targets for both Sanchez and Geno
Maybe Holmes has worse stats because he was hurt and played ~150 less snaps than Hill according to Rotowire? 443 for Holmes and 594 for Hill. We also didn't have a WR who could beat someone on the outside or get consistent separation. It's a combination of factors that led to Geno struggling and part of it being the WR talent or lack of it.
They were both hurt, And Holmes actually played in more games. Not sure what the relevance of number of snaps is if they were targeted similar amount of times. Hill is known as a better more physical blocker and so it makes sense that he would be left in to block more then Holmes would be with his balky foot/hamstring/butt hole. Holmes also had 4 drops in that time as opposed to Hills 1. There's an article I've posted several times now that describes Hill getting separation on come back, outs and go routes. I'm not going to post it again but you can go back and read it. I think Geno didn't have the confidence for the throws, he definitely has the arm so hopefully it develops. Basically they both are very young and going to improve. If they can gel and get some chemistry with Geno's ability to throw the deep ball it could be a beautiful combination. Or we could cut him before camp because we have David Nelson.
More snaps = more opportunites. I would be shocked if the additional 150 snaps Hill got were all run plays. The article that focuses on one game against the Bills secondary? You used that to extrapolate out that Hill was open and running good routes in every other game he's played? Or is there another article? Because I've read stuff (like here http://sports.yahoo.com/news/york-jets-team-release-stephen-hill-165800954--nfl.html and http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/20..._making_progress_but_jets_still_cautious.html) the repeatedly say Hill's weakness is route running. You know what can also throw off timing, inconsistent routes. That's why I said an inconsistent Geno plus an inconsistent Hill equaled poor play from both. Just like Geno's weakness throwing to the outside last year is related to the lack of outside talent we had last year. It's all connected and more so when you have average at best talent in the WR and QB position. I don't think we should cut him, but man has he been a disappointment. Injuries and lack of production do that though.
No, Just shows that he has the ability and showed it in flashes where others are saying he has shown no progress or improvement. Hopefully he can learn how to do it consistently It basically comes down to him being able to get/stay healthy this year I think. I don't think it's fair to say a project player is a disappointment after year 2, But I agree it would have been nice to get more out him last season. here's to 2014.
I'm not a numbers guy I can only go by what I saw. And while Geno was bad whether you like it or not the fact that others around him were more productive is an indictment on Hill.
No, it's not. Every single Wr on that list had at least 3-4 years more experience then Hill. Yet none of them really put up respectable numbers. Kerleys numbers are even pedestrian if you don't take into account the amount of 3rd and longs he pulled out of his ass. If we had a 1k Wr or a couple that put up 800 yards and hill still had the same stat line then sure, put more blame on him. But you can't honestly tell me he's been out in very good position to succeed. He improved a lot last offseason I don't understand why you can't fathom or... Gasp, maybe even root for him making an improvement going into year 3. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When I watched them play the other receivers were more productive. Even if it didn't translate into the stat sheet. Kerley and Nelson pulling in key 3rd down catches etc. And btw I am rooting for Hill.
Then we agree... I was never trying to say Hill was more productive last season. Just that the difference in production is well made up for in his potential. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Agreed he's show flashes. I think the disappointment comes from Tanny's past, the trade up, and the fact that Alshon was drafted a few picks after him.
Dude that's brutal as hell. That could be the worst combination of second round picks over those 6 years of any team in the league.
Good one,.. next time try not to add so much to the conversation at once... People here get overwhelmed easily. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Do any draft gurus remember what WRs were still on the board when we took Hill? Just curious if we passed up a gem to take Hill.
I still think we could sign back Holmes for pretty cheap. Bring him into camp and let him compete for a spot. If he gets outplayed in camp then cut him but I think if he has the best chance to succeed here. Even if he's the 4-5 WR he might be able to give a few flashes of that guy who you wanted to throw to when the game was on the line. If we don't grab him I bet the Pats will.
Ajitator, I don't think you realize how much worse 24-59 is. Not all of that is Hill's fault, but are you saying that for whatever reason, Geno chose to be inaccurate to Hill? That said, I see Geno as 24-48 when targeting Hill which isn't as bad. Having faith in Hill right now is blind faith. Is it possible he breaks out? Sure, he's young, and he's got a size-speed combo. But he's shown virtually nothing in 2 years. I think he gets on the roster but is inactive a good amount. He doesn't play special teams, which limits value as a depth receiver. If the Jets draft multiple receivers, Hill will have to prove to the Jets why he's worth keeping around as a project.
