Kerley yes,. Nelson not really. I've posted the stats. They both put up mediocre numbers at best. Factor in that Nelson is going into his 5th year and is 4 years older then Hill... yea.. I would hope he can catch 9 more balls through 12 games.
It's not about stats. And even then Nelson's stats were better. It's no secret why Geno had chemistry with Kerley and Nelson. It's because they understand HOW to play receiver. They're not just getting by on physical tools. When Geno is in trouble they don't just run their route and then stand there waving their hands in the air like they just don't care. They come back and make themselves open. They run better routes and they simply don't give up on plays.
I don't understand what you're trying to get across here. Yes Nelson knows more of the nuances of the game, He's had 4 years experience and is 4 years older then Hill. He has been able to study and learn the game as he matures without the pressure of NYC and fans like you calling for his head. I'm fairly certain there were no Bills saying Nelson should have been cut after his second year. Hill is an incredibly raw prospect that is slowly learning his craft. His first year he had a problem with drops. He was asked to improve and made HUGE improvements ( only dropping 1 ball ). We all know he didn't light it up, But he made strides in the right direction. Anyone who watched the games could see he was better in year 2 then year 1. Take into account that he was limited often last season and I don't understand how you can just write him off. It's not like we're paying Hill millions of dollars or that he's keeping reps from our younger guys. Even if we draft multiple WRs this year he's still going to be one of the youngest guys on the team. I've openly stated in their 2013 form, yes obviously Nelson is a better WR. He was really helpful for Geno in that he was a big body WR with decent hands who knows how to make himself available to the QB. That absolutely doesn't mean that I don't think Hill has potential to be 10x the WR that Nelson is. He's already nearly as good as Nelson is production wise. As much as people like to write off Hill because he only played well against the Bills, and only has a good game 1/16 times - If you take away Nelson's game against the Browns he suddenly becomes a very unproductive WR. But I'm not going to continue to argue with you anymore,... You don't like Stephen Hill, we get it.
The argument was that Hill mainly sucked because of poor QB play. I said Kerley and Nelson was more productive with the same QB that was throwing to Hill. I then listed reasons WHY they were more productive. I'm not writing off Hill I think he can be a productive player. You say Hill had issues because of playing in NYC. Well that didn't seem to bother a lot of the productive receivers/tight ends we've had here recently.
Both were established players in the pro game. I thought the question here is why Hill has not developed to a higher level. Comparing his situation to that of Kerley and Nelson is apples and oranges. Receivers work with their quarterbacks. I don't see how you can ignore that relation when asssessing the question about Hill.
Not "issues" per say, Just that he's under a lot more scrutiny ( from pundits, experts and people around here alike ) based on his draft position and production then he would be at another less public/vocal franchise.
Kerley has only been in the league one more year than Hill. And if the QB play was that bad it would've affected everybody not just one player. Winslow and Cumberland were productive too. Gates (before he got hurt) and Hill were bad last year. So either we blame the QB for Hill and Gates struggles or it's mostly on those receivers.
Blame the Jets. You don't draft a project in round 2. That's number 1, secondly if you do draft a project receiver you don't anoint him your number 2 receiver. He should've started off as the number 4 or 5 receiver and be allowed to develop and gradually move up the depth chart. Now this is an opportunity to rectify their mistakes. Let Hill start off as the number 4/5 receiver. He has no pressure on him and he can contribute without having to be depended on to be the guy.
While Nelson proved to be a trusted target for Smith, lets face it, in a full season this guy will not make it. I would think about 30% of the time he made a catch, he came up limping..lame...off the field. He came back on the field most of the time but I cant remember a player that makes a play and looks to be hurt so much. He just always looks banged up. Just my opinion watching him last year but I wouldn't put many eggs in that basket for a 4th option.
Hard to argue with any of this. Jets love to play games with that second pick. From a field goal kicker to Hill...trying to pull your future qb in the second round...the second round is the kinky round for the Jets. Most teams use the 5th thru 7th. We like to be smarter then everyone else.
Jet's 2nd round picks from 2007-2012: 2007 - David Harris (cost them a 2nd, 3rd and a 6th for 7th swap to move up 16 slots and make the pick). 2008 - No pick (traded up for Dustin Keller costing them a 4th round pick to move up 6 slots). 2009 - No pick (traded up for Mark Sanchez). 2010 - Vladimir Ducasse 2011 - No pick (Cromartie trade). 2012 - Stephen Hill (cost them a 5th and a 7th to move up 4 slots). How can you possibly get less value than that out of your 2nd round picks over time?
So, you are saying that the play of the qb has NOTHING to do with Hill's lack of development? I frankly find that bizarre. Hill played one season with an awful Sanchez, and one more with an awful Smith. Sure Kerley has risen to the top, but he was in his third year last year. Your last sentence presents a binary choice. I think it is both Smith and Hill. Winslow came to the team as damaged goods but also an established talent. Apples and oranges. And to me, I don't think Cumberland was at all impressive. He has yet to live up to expectations.
True. Harris was the only good pick, and I am not his biggest fan at that. The best move was trading the pick for Cromartie.
Agreed, I don't think anyone ( outside of Kerley ) "impressed" last season ( or the season before for that matter). Not sure how anyone could disagree. The only thing we have to look for really is improvement. Like I said early year one Hill's biggest problem were drops.. He was asked to improve on that and did so greatly. If he can continue to improve in the specific areas that we define for him every offseason he could turn into a real asset for us. Hopefully he just continues to work hard.
I'm not saying that the QB play didn't play a role. My point is that the majority of the blame lies on Hill. Especially when others around him have been more productive (Kerley, Nelson, Cumberland, Winslow) Kerley played with Sanchez too and he was productive in '12 as well with 800+ yards receiving. I'm not saying Cumberland was "impressive" but simply that he was "productive".
"More" productive is a very relative term. I would be very impressed if you were able to put the names to the stat lines here without looking them up. It just shows how little separation there was in productivity for our passing game last season. 26/40 - 398 yds - 4 TD 31/47 - 388 yds - 2 TD 36/60 - 423 yds - 2 TD 43/72 - 523 yds - 3TD 24/59 - 342 yds - 1 TD Yes Hill has a lot of work to do. But to say that his problems are his own because other WRs were "producing" is silly. Another thing to take into account is that Smith struggled mightily getting the ball to his WRs on the outside as opposed to in the middle of the field. He had staggering 49.4% completion throwing to either sideline as opposed to 63.2% completion when throwing to the middle of the field. Kerley Cumberland and Nelson all benefited from this improved accuracy over the middle, where as Hill spent most of his snaps on the right sideline, Geno had 47.4% accuracy to that side of the field. I'm struggling to see how you can blame this all on Hill. For those curious: Cumberland: 26/40 398 yds 4 TD Winslow: 31/47 - 388 yds 2 TD Nelson: 36/60 - 423 yds 2 TD Kerley: 43/72 - 523 yds - 3TD Hill: 26/40 - 398 - 1TD
One of these things is not the like others. One of these things is not the same. Geno's 47% completion rate to the left side of the field is because he had Hill there, not the other way around.
