I don't think I would mind if Mattingly was Piniella's successor. He's spent a little too much time with Torre for my liking. Same with Girardi, the more I think about it, the more I want a complete 180 from Torre. In the back of my mind, I imagine Girardi being a Junior Torre.
One thing about Lou is that he has a rep about letting Starters go too far into games, total opposite of Joe. I hope that doesn't hurt young arms like Wang and Hughes.
Girardi took a team with nothing and made them into a real contender for the wildcard. I would take him any day of the week. However, I hope Torre stays because I think the new manager will lose this team.
Girardi did that with a bunch of young players, not with a group of veterans. The scenarios and situations are completely different. Not that I don't like Girardi, but he's not yet ready to be the manager of the Yankees. And you talk about losing this team, what is there to lose that Torre hasn't already lost? Other than the dynasty players (which will be down to three by next season,) these guys have no emotional ties to Torre. After six years of not winning, 3-10 in the last 2 1/2 years, it's time for a change.
I think that some players still do have allegiance to Torre. Players like Jeter, Rivera, Mussina, and Posada will not be happy with getting rid of Torre. I think many players around the league view Torre with respect and will consider coming here if he is the manager because they will see stability. If we get someone like Lou Pinella noone will know what to think. Someone in this thread mentioned that Lou Pinella would put the Yankees in rebuilding mode. Does anyone really want that? Believe me, we all want to see a team thats competing for the championship out there every year. No one wants to suffer through some bad seasons. Ask Mets fans.
Jeter, Rivera, and Posada are the only players who will be back that have a close relationship with Torre. Of the three, only Jeter will be around for a while. You can't make decisions for the future based on a small minority, it will set the franchise back. Look at the Packers with Brett Favre. Him hanging around is killing them, and not properly allowing them to rebuild the franchise. The situations are different, but the general idea is the same. The Yankees don't need to "rebuild", but there will be changes. They'll still be a very competitive team next season. They'll have too much core talent not to be good. '07 will be more like a transition year than a rebuilding year, as younger talent is integrated with core veterans. I still expect them to win 90+ games and compete for a championship.
I was the one who said Lou would put us in rebuild mode, and I honestly believe that. I'm actually a bit nervous about dumping Torre right now. I was watching the news before, and they were interviewing the Yankees, and every single one of them is saying they don't want Joe to go. I don't know. I feel like it's time. But does it run the risk of alienating the guys we need to be there for us? Does it break Jeter? Right now, after finally calming down a lot, I might be open to giving Torre one more chance. But it needs to be made crystal clear that his margin for error is zero. No more wasting arms in the pen. No moving around the lineup for "his guys." Just play with the team that Cash puts together for him, not because of him.
I just believe that taking Torre out of there would cause more problems than it would solve. We had a great season with a ton of wins and a division title. I know we are expected to win in the playoffs but you can't discount what this team has done this year and all the years Torre has been manager. So, I guess the question is, Was it Steinbrenner's money or Torre's in game managing and management of the lineup that contributed more to our successes? I personally believe that no other manager in baseball has the experience to balance that lineup like Torre did. He still made a few gutsy calls in the playoffs (sitting Sheff and playing Bernie and sitting Giambi )
What do you expect them to say? That they don't care either way? Of course they're going to support Joe in the press, and a lot of them probably like him, but in reality most of the team won't care either way. There's only a small, small group of people that live and die with Torre, and you can't build a team with that group's interests. Also, everything you ask of Torre you know won't happen if he returns.
See, that's the problem. What he did wasn't the gutsy move. It was the stupid move. He switched up the lineup to get in Matsui and Sheffield. The two of them were out of the lineup the entire year. While they were out, the team built a certain chemistry, that REALLY worked well. The gutsy thing would have been playing the guys who got them there. If things weren't working, then you have Sheff and Matsui on the bench to PH. That's where half the blame goes. The other half is the total lack of motivation he provided for the series. (Then you could also add in that our pen was flat out decimated during the year by his retarded moves.)
I hear you, but I am going on body language. These guys, like Damon and even Proctor, were in shock when the reporters were bringing up the topic. It seemed like the thought had never even crossed their minds, rather than a scripted response. I'm pretty willing to admit you are right that Torre would never change. It's unfortunate. Part of me feels like I would really like him to bring us back to the days of the late 90s.
Stick Michael and Buck Showalter building the perfect team is what contributed the most to the overall success over the past 10 years. Other than 1996 (a year that Torre deserves a lot of credit for,) any manager could have been the manager and won championships that Torre gets credit for. No question about it. Now that doesn't mean Torre wasn't a good manager, because he did a good job of "managing" a perfect team. He just went by the law of averages and he didn't screw anything up. But over the last six years he has had to be a better manager, the teams have had flaws those dynasty teams didn't have, and instead of just sitting back and not screwing up he's had to actually win games by out managing his opponent. He hasn't been able to do that. He can't do that. It's reached the point where a change is needed. It's been six years since Torre won a championship, three since he's made the WS. It seems crazy to have such lofty expectations, but with the money spent, that's what they are. Ever since the Yankees beat the Sox 19-8 in Game 3, this team has played dead in the post-season. They need something new. Something in the Daily News today about Torre was true, too. This isn't the same guy who was the Yankees manager in the dynasty era. He has too many other interests now, he's more of a family man, his Safe at Home foundation, the fact that he's older and fought with cancer. His time is up with this team on a daily basis.
I think at this point, with this team Torre shouldn't have to be the one to motivate this team to play. We have great veteran players like Jeter and Posada who have won championships in the past that should have stepped up and motivated this team . I know that this is very difficult because the whole team is veterans but i think if Jeter spoke or Bernie spoke they would be respected and listened too. I also believe that Melky should have been out there a little more. However, he is just a kid and when you have players like Sheffield and especially Matsui there you want to use them. Sheffield has been too great of a player i the past to think he wouldn't do anything. (plus he played first) and Matsui has always been a very clutch hitter and a very good hitter.
