He was a force because he had Ferguson, Ellis and Abe on the line with him, therefore couldn't be doubled consistently. Once Fergie was gone he was never the same player.
I don't know how you can look at this and think we did well. No probowlers or alternates and 5 players will be on our team next year,total. If DRob is so good, how come we can't give him away? Injuries have something to do with it , but c'mon.
No, he really wasn't. He was a pretty good NT for them. And DRob's played pretty much the exact same way he's played his whole career the past two years. He's been dominated at times, but he still shows enough flashes that always gives hope. I'd actually argue he's been our best DL-man the past two seasons.
and Fergie was never the same player. Let us also not forget that Abe was hurt the last part of the season and into the playoffs and Robertson was still a force. He was hurt in '05 which held him back then in '06 he was put into the wrong scheme. Ferguson gets way too much credit. Ferg was good in 2003 yet Dewayne wasn't very good, by the theory that Ferg made Dewayne you'd think Dewayne would have been alot better in '03. First off we did have PBers, Vilma & Miller. Second, I don't worry about PBs as the PB is vastly overrated, Rhodes deserved to play in the PB the last years, Robertson deserved it in 2004, Cotchery has been on the cusp. We got tons of solid starters out of those drafts which is more important to me. In 32 games in Dallas in '05 and '06 ferg had 83 tackles and 1 sack. His last 2 years in NY he had 133 tackles and 8 sacks. The Dallas D went from being ranked 10th in rush D in 2004 to 15th in 2005 then back to 10th. This season w/ Ferg out for the year the rush D moved up to 6th. Yep Ferg made quite an impact in Dallas.
Here's how San Diego drafted during the same time period. 2005 - San Diego Chargers Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 12 Shawne Merriman OLB Maryland 1 28 Luis Castillo DE Northwestern 2 61 Vincent Jackson WR Northern Colorado 4 130 Darren Sproles RB Kansas State 5 164 Wesley Britt T Alabama 6 177 Wes Sims G Oklahoma 7 242 Scott Mruczkowski C Bowling Green State 2004 - San Diego Chargers Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 1 Eli Manning QB Mississippi 2 35 Igor Olshansky DE Oregon 3 65 Nate Kaeding K Iowa 3 66 Nick Hardwick C Purdue 4 98 Shaun Phillips LB Purdue 5 133 Dave Ball DE UCLA 5 154 Michael Turner RB Northern Illinois 6 169 Ryan Krause TE Nebraska-Omaha 7 204 Ryon Bingham DT Nebraska 7 209 Shane Olivea T Ohio State 7 254 Carlos Joseph -- Miami (Fla.) 2003 - San Diego Chargers Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 30 Sammy Davis CB Texas A&M 2 46 Drayton Florence CB Tuskegee 2 62 Terrence Kiel SS Texas A&M 3 80 Courtney Van Buren T Arkansas-Pine Bluff 4 112 Matt Wilhelm LB Ohio State 5 149 Mike Scifres P Western Illinois 6 188 Hanik Milligan DB Houston 7 229 Andrew Pinnock FB South Carolina 2002 - San Diego Chargers Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 5 Quentin Jammer DB Texas 2 39 Toniu Fonoti G Nebraska 2 48 Reche Caldwell WR Florida 3 71 Ben Leber OLB Kansas State 4 103 Justin Peelle TE Oregon 5 142 Terry Charles WR Portland State 6 178 Matt Anderle -- Minnesota 7 216 Seth Burford QB Cal Poly-S.L.O. Much better don't you think. I can give more examples of good drafts during that time period if you like. I know this won't be popular. 2005 - New York Giants Rd Sel # Player Position School 2 43 Corey Webster DB Louisiana State 3 74 Justin Tuck DE Notre Dame 4 110 Brandon Jacobs RB Southern Illinois 6 186 Eric Moore DE Florida State 2004 - New York Giants Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 4 Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State 2 34 Chris Snee G Boston College 4 97 Reggie Torbor DE Auburn 5 136 Gibril Wilson SS Tennessee 6 168 Jamaar Taylor WR Texas A&M 7 203 Drew Strojny T Duke 7 253 Isaac Hilton -- Hampton 2003 - New York Giants Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 25 William Joseph DT Miami (Fla.) 2 56 Osi Umenyiora DE Troy State 3 91 Visanthe Shiancoe TE Morgan State 4 123 Rod Babers DB Texas 5 160 David Diehl G Illinois 6 199 Willie Ponder WR Southeast Missouri State 6 207 Frank Walker CB Tuskegee 6 211 David Tyree WR Syracuse 7 240 Charles Drake -- Michigan 7 249 Wayne Lucier G Colorado 7 255 Kevin Walter WR Eastern Michigan Alot more of their players stuck. I'll save us the embarassment of showing the Pats drafts over the same time period with worse picks.Probowlers, starters and contributers. We did not draft well.
Did I say we had rthe BEST drafts over that time? 11 startes is considered quality drafting and we had multiple PBers and more guys that deserved it. Outside ofd a couple of players I don'tsee a huge difference in these drafts that you have posted. I think Jet fans just like to bash for the sake of bashing. Remember SD never won a playoff game until this year, we went into SD and beat them in the playoffs. The Giants hadn't won a playoff game since 2000 prior to this year.
He was playing in completely different defenses his last two years here and when he went to Dallas though. And I like how you put all of Dallas' run defense on Ferguson with your rankings. Our run defense has been crap with DRob as the NT, but I'm sure you'll pin the blame on everyone else to justify your man-love for DRob. Hell, I don't even hate DRob like some on here do, but you argue just to argue.
It's not all on him but if he was playing well why were their run Ds better before he got there and after he got hurt last year? He was a good player for us and all the DL helped each other out but Robertson was our best DL in 2004.
And coincidentally 2004 is the year that our entire D-line was one of the best in the NFL. You don't think DRob was helped by Abe, Ellis, and Fergy just as much as they were helped by him? I mean, wouldn't the fact that he's been an inconsistent player before and after that say that *maybe* he was helped by having a sick, young DL playing next to him?
In retrospect you cannot look at the Jet's roster today and say we've done well in the draft over the last decade. Just run down who is starting where and you begin to realize that the Jets have actually gotten about as little out of the draft, in terms of current impact starters on the team, than any team in the NFL, which is why we are where we are. Throw in the fact that Kerry Rhodes is headed into a walk year and things get pretty scary as you look at the near future. For the record: SE - Laveranues Coles - 3rd round 2000 LT - D'Brickashaw Ferguson - 1st round 2006 LG - Alan Faneca - Free Agent C - Nick Mangold - 1st round 2006 RG - Brandon Moore - Free Agent RT - Damien Woody - Free Agent TE - Chris Baker - 3rd round 2002 FL - Jerrico Cotchery - 4th round 2004 HB - Thomas Jones - Trade FB - Tony Richardson - Free Agent QB - Kellen Clemens - 2nd round 2006 P - Whoever - Free Agent K - Mike Nugent - 2nd round 2005 RDE - Kenyon Coleman - Free Agent NT - Kris Jenkins - Trade LDE - Shaun Ellis - 1st round 2000 ROLB - Calvin Pace - Free Agent RILB - David Harris - 2nd round 2007 LILB - Eric Barton - Free Agent LOLB - Bryan Thomas - 1st round 2002 RCB - David Barrett - Free Agent FS - Kerry Rhodes - 4th round 2005 SS- Abram Elam - Free Agent LCB - Darrelle Revis - 1st round 2007 That's 12 out of the 24 starters that are here via free agency or trade. That's a big number and one of the main reasons the Jets have not been able to put anything together in terms of consistent results over the last 5 years. Why are the Jets so low on home-drafted starters right now? The consistent changes in the defensive front over the last decade, from 4-3 to 3-4 to 4-3 to 3-4 again means that Hugh Douglas, James Farrior, Jason Ferguson, John Abraham and now Jonathan Vilma have all been shown the door after being drafted by the Jets. Likewise the Jets inability to retain Randy Thomas and Kareem McKenzie and the decision not to retain Jason Fabini have pushed offensive line starters out of town. Where were the Jets weak spots last season? That's why. BTW, just had to add this in: the Jets have ZERO starters out of the 5th, 6th and 7th rounds over the last decade on their current roster. Think about that for a second. ZERO starters out of the back end of the draft. Two of the Pats current starters on offense, Tom Brady and Dan Koppen, came out of that region that the Jets can't make anything out of.
That # is big not b/c of porr drafting but b/c of cap problems left behind by Parcells and Co and the changing of schemes. Prior to '01 we drafted a certain way and had to get rid of certain guys b/c of scheme or cap issues then post '05 we got rid of guys b/c of scheme issues.
But where are the late round guys? Nobody that the post-Parcells regimes has drafted after the 4th round is starting ANYWHERE in the NFL right now. That's 3 rounds of blanks for 7 years running and it's indicative of very poor talent evaluation and drafting.
It's not easy getting guys that late, our last quality guy drafted that late was Ryan Young and prior to that Jason Ferguson but we only got him that late b/c of a failed drug test. Look at the pats that late this decade, they really only got Brady and Koppen and Brady was a fluky pick. What else did they get? Banta-Cain, Givens? That's pretty much it. The Giants haven't done anything in the late rds either, they got Bradshaw this past year which was a great pick buit not much else late.
I understand your concern with late round choices, but then again I don't. If you didn't continually draft year after year for new talent, more of those late round choices would stick after maturation in the system. But each year you're adding a new influx of high round choices, and they're not expanding past 11 players on either side of the ball. If you dropped to a four round draft, you're still going to turn over your entire starting roster of starters every five years basically (4*5=20). If it was a five round draft, you'd turn it every four years. Seven rounds = 3 years. In my mind, the bigger issue would be if you were hitting on more of your late round choices as it would mean to paid big money to guys who didn't cut it and couldn't outperform the low-round choices.
Give me a break. Here's the Bradway pattern, which the Jets still unfortunately are following: 1. Be unable to project more than X (where X is half the first round or less) actual first rounders in any given draft. 2. Either trade up, expending valuable depth in the process, so that you can cherry-pick somebody that projects to be a first rounder in your weak talent evaluation process. Or 3. Select somebody like Bryan Thomas, who clearly is not a first round talent, making your own prophecy self-fulfilling. Regardless of what you do - 4. You never draft a player worthy of pro bowl recognition. And 5. You allow your first day picks to leave town if they turn out to be decent players because they are "over-paid" by other teams that subsequently do better than your team because they have actual talent on the team. Oh yeah, and with the lack of stars coming in the first day you STILL can't pick a 5th, 6th or 7th round player who makes an impact for you in 7 years... Jesus. In retrospect Terry Bradway was the worst Jet's GM I have ever seen. And that's saying a lot because the mid-70's and early 90's crews were miserable also. His talent evaluation was actually the weakest part of his game, even with the rep he had coming in. I mean you can't negotiate a contract for your life, you can't slot players correctly for the draft, you can't even recognize where the talent you inherited is at so they constantly fall out on you leaving gaping holes. Good lord.
Oh please...you would bitch and moan no matter what we do. Honestly, I think you're happier when the Jets lose because then you can whine about everything the FO does. Some people are only happy when they are complaining.
Not to mention this is the third off-season that Bradway is not running the show anymore. Time to stop worrying about him, no?
And its been good drafting ever since.. 1st and 2nd round picks are playing and working out and the 2nd day picks look promising.
