Snacks: "I'm the best NT in football"

I know teams really value their 2nd round picks, and for good reason. However Snacks is a 26 year old NT that you can plug into the middle of the line and make your run defense better for 4 or 5 seasons. What exactly are you going to get out of a 2nd round pick that on average is better value than that?

If the 2nd rounder was guaranteed to be a good player then you can ignore the young prime guy you know is good, even if he fits a need that every good defense has.

Making a $5M a year offer with some guarantees seems like a no-brainer for half the pathetic defenses in the NFL right now. For the really good defenses it might not make sense because they've already got things under control on that side of the ball.

It has to be collusion. Something like "putting a 2nd round tender on a player is like putting a sock on the doorknob."

BTW, the reason Roger Goodell has such a bad rep right now is that the players really hate him. The new CBA was a disaster for them and until it gets renewed under better terms the guy who led the way on the NFL side is going to be under heavy and continuous fire.

 

Rookies are no guarantee, that's certainly true. But the reward on hitting on that second rounder and being able to fill a need at about $1M per (give or take a few hundred thousand depending on the location of the pick, which is probably more likely to be a back half second rounder in this case) instead of $5M per can be extremely beneficial in terms of addressing other needs. I guess I wouldn't have been surprised if a team signed Snacks to an offer sheet but I'm also not surprised they didn't.

 

The NFL is indeed going back to 3-4 D's. Likely to get more athletes on the field

In the typical 3-4, the DL is primarily square run pluggers w/ MAYBE one stand-out who's a good interior pass rusher.

But what if a team had 3 of those rare,unique style athletes capable of stacking/shedding but also change direction & flip their hips?

Wilkerson/Williams/Richardson Long term. Find a way.Williams can handle NT & maybe you flip he can Sheldon now & again.But that's about as a complete 3 man DL as you can dream up.

 

Williams has been compared to Reggie White and you would play him in the middle when you have Snacks?

We need to keep Snacks and either Sheldon or Mo.

Hopefully we can get something in return for the odd man out.

 

Trading Sheldon is more likely. I think they can get a 1st for him, but probably a mid-late first at best.

 

I think it is reckless to undervalue a quality NT when we run the 3-4, a NT is the foundation that allows the 3-4 to work, without it and it turns to swiss cheese, remember the failure of the Robertson bust to show what happens when you try to fake it at NT, even though we talk a lot about 4 man fronts on here we are still a 34 defense so it is to me premature to say that Snacks is expendable.

 

This league is about having hybrid defenses more than anything. To be able to switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 on a game by game basis, to have that personnel. That's what Todd Bowles did in Arizona. It's all about creating mismatches.

I would never put L. Williams in as a 3-4 NT - he's not big enough. Maybe in a 4 man front you have him create mismatches at the 1 or 3 tech, but that's why the 4-3 is so much more flexible in regards to base defense. I would love for us to go that route.

 

I think the NFL is going back to 3-4's because it's easier to find 3 and maintain 3 big talented guys than it is to get 4 of them. I don't know who said it but it's true that there are only so many 300 lb guys with real talent available. Finding 4 250+ lb guys to play behind them is an easier task and finding 5 DB's to man the nickel is easier still.

I really think letting Snacks go will hurt us more than picking between Mo and Sheldon if that's what it comes down too. Snacks is going to slot in at $6M a year or so and the other guys are going to be twice that at least. There's only one slot in the cap for a top of the market DE if you want to win a Super Bowl.

 

None of the Jets DT/DE's are 3-4 NT's. Even assuming you could afford a $12M a year NT, which you can't.

 

Cept Snacks of course. I absolutely would not pay Snacks 12M / season anyway - not even 10M. That is absolutely insane.

My argument is about running more 4 man fronts. If you can find a way to retain Mo / Sheldon and Williams then, I think the Jets would be in better shape going forward - Snacks would be expendable. Maybe that's why no one on the line is signed long-term cept for Williams. It's a fork in the road for Bowles and Mac really.

You have players that can be that edge rusher in Mauldin, IK, and Babin. The cap talk, at times is not really discussed properly because no one seems to account for the future contracts and increase in cap.

Look at the Rams and how they are fielding their defense. They are truly under the radar. Look at how many talented defensive lineman they have. Their defense you can argue is better than the Jets.

 

I agree. Many fans on here seem to forget, or perhaps never learned that the pass rushing OLB and the NT are the two most important positions on a 3-4 D. End of story. Especially since they let Kenrick Ellis sign with the Giants, unless Barnes or Simon prove to be revelations, they need to keep Harrison.

 

The jets over drafted Robertson prior to the rookie cap and were married to him being on the field. he was probably more suited to playing 43 dt than 34 nt in the nfl. we've been playing 34 since mangini and haven't had much trouble finding a fat 2 gapper to stuff the run since him.

it's the nt that can also push the pocket or otherwise cause interior pressure on passing downs that seems to be elusive and snacks doesn't fit that bill either.

maybe we've just been lucky or maybe it was rex or dunbar or a combo but we've had that run stuffing nt pretty consistently and we haven't had to invest much to achieve it.

 

I agree regarding Robertson.

We have been extremely lucky imo since then finding quality NTs. I think most have probably forgotten how long we looked for a quality NT. I think that's why they reached for Robertson even with bone on bone in his knees. They were desperate to find an NT. There were some available in FA before that, but for some dumb reason, the Jets' FO would never sign one of them, yet they'd go to a new team for a few years, play very well stopping the run, then move to another team. Meanwhile, we kept sucking.

Just because we've been fortunate or blessed because we had a FO that valued the position doesn't mean that we should start taking it for granted, however. After losing Ellis, I'm glad they drafted an NT prospect in Simon. It will be interesting to see if Barnes continues to develop as well.

Since we were without a quality NT for so long and have finally hit on a string of good ones, maybe the same thing will finally happen for us at QB. (PLEASE!!!)

 

They didnt select Robertson to play nt.Herm and bradway took him to be a 3t in herms tampa 2.
magini than try to fit him in as a nt because he showed no flexibility to scheme around the talent he had.

 

Apparently the best nose tackle in the league will be 2 gapping less and rushing the passer more this year. http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2015/07/jets_damon_harrison_says_todd_bowles_will_let_him.html

Thoughts?

 

D-Rob was a mistake from the get-go. He had a bone-on-bone condition in his knee already when he was drafted. He was not a star player at Kentucky, just a good one. He looked good in his skivvies at the combine and the Jets (and several other teams) over-valued him as a result. He was a 2nd round pick who vaulted up into the top of the 1st round and the Jets compounded the error by trading up to take him.

Then moving back and forth between a 4-3 and a 3-4 kind of destroyed the value that he had, which was moderate to good. He actually worked out in the NFL but was widely perceived as a bust because he was over-drafted and the Jets paid a premium to overdraft him.

 

If he can show productivity rushing the passer [not judging by sack stats], then I see the Jets retaining his services. If he fails to be productive on 3rd down, then well - I don't see him coming back at all. If he can have the impact of a Kris Jenkins, we will definitely bring him back.

If he ain't doing shit on 3rd down, look for more 4 man fronts next season.

 

Between the two Ellis was the quicker upfield attacker. If we're turning our NT into Lawerence Taylor I'd have preferred to have kept Ellis.