Sick of not having a Pass Rush

Williams wasn't a fit for a 3-4 but was a fit for a 4-3. Sometimes it is hard to figure out if you have a guy who can play 5T or if he is just a 3T who is not suited for a 3-4.

In Williams case he had the size to be a 5T and he was effective at getting pressure but he was mostly a step short of getting the sack. This is likely because the distance he had to travel to the QB and who he had to travel through (G+OT) was just a bit much for him. Once he got moved to 3T he was closer to the QB and dealing with the C + G and the sacks started coming.

 

Anytime I want to hear your pov, I look for a thread you started bc I’ve never seen you in a thread outside of your own.

I like Enagbare in the top info 2nd/bottom 1st and Nik Bonitto bottom of the 2nd/top of the 3rd.

Enagbare will be at the SR. Bowl and I see Bonitto as a SAM/DE who could fill multiple rolls

 

There are a ton of EDGE players in the draft who are between absolute stud and developmental player who could be had in the 2nd.

 

But the same thing could happen if he drafts Thibodeaux. Perish the thought, but Thibodeaux could wind up missing the entire season with an injury. Shit happens. In some ways, achieving a pass rush by committee is safer because more people contribute to it. This past season it wasn't just Lawson. Huff got injured, I think Q. Williams was knicked up. Several of their other depth DEs also got injured.

In the 2021 draft 9 DEs were drafted in the top 61 picks. Outside of Qwity Paye, were any of them worth a darn? I know that you wouldn't have preferred passing on Zach, trading down and taking a DE. Take a look at the list of 2021 FAs at Edge and tell me who would have been the answer better than Lawson. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2021/all/defensive-end/all/

In the 2020 draft, Chase Young went at #2, K'Lavon Chaisson went at #20, Yetur Gross-Matos went at #38, Marlon Davidson (who?) went at #47, Darrell Taylor (again who?) went at #48, A.J. Epenesa (who wasn't a scheme fit) went at #54, and JD to Zuniga at #79. What was he supposed to do, burn a lot of draft capital in his first draft to try to get Young or Chaisson or Gross-Matos, and forget about protecting Sam/the QB and trying to add some talent at WR? I follow draft prospects pretty closely, particularly at areas of need for the Jets, and I had never even heard of Davidson and Taylor. Following is the list of 2020 NFL FA at Edge. Please tell me who JD could have signed. Remember cap space was an issue in 2020. I don't think we could have signed Dante Fowler, Jr. if JD had wanted to, and with his character issues and lack of production, I doubt that JD would have had any interest in throwing a ton of money at him. Which is worse, trying and grossly overpaying a not very productive FA Edge, or being prudent, not giving a huge contract to someone you know isn't going to produce and who doesn't have the character of the type of players that you want to change the culture? There were other Edges available, of course, but would any of them have made a difference in our pass rush?

I get that you're frustrated and tired of losing. We ALL are! That doesn't change facts, however. The fact is that JD and the Jets haven't been in the position either capwise or draftwise to fix the Edge position adquately. He tried with Lawson. That was a great shot at fixing our pass rush imo. Hendrickson would have been nice, but he may not have wanted to sign with the Jets, and he had only had a couple of seasons with good production. Even though Lawson had had some injuries issues, he was very productive for most of his career. Hendrickson's contract may have been prohibitive as well.

Remember also how our offense had been basically ignored for years. Even if he had added a stud rusher in the draft like Young, we wouldn't be winning, because he'd have had to have burned much, if not most of our draft capital, wouldn't have been able to address the offense, we still wouldn't have had and NFL caliber offense, would have been even worse than we were this past season, and Zach truly would have had zero chance to succeed.

The Edge might be the last big piece that JD is able to add next year or even in 2024, but if the offense is flourishing and the overall D better, we will win our share of games, and the team will be improving. Rome wasn't built in a day, and there's more than one way to get where we want to be.

 

I forgot about Ojabo, but must admit that he scares me. He had one year of good production in college, and that just happened to be the one year that Hutchinson had a career year. I'm sure that they helped each other, but I have a gut feeling that neither is that good or will be that good in the NFL. I could be wrong. I haven't watched film focusing on Hutchinson, so he could be the real deal that just took some time to develop. The same for Ojabo. I will add him to my list to watch soon. Unless Ojabo or one of the other guys really impresses me, I think our hopes may rest in either Thibodeaux or Ebikitie.

 

From your lips (keyboard) to the Texans and God's ears/eyes!

 

From what I've been able to find, Ebikitie's age seems to have been wiped out from everywhere, not sure why. Yes, he is a redshit sr, but it's not uncommon for them to be 23 year old. I have a suspicion Ebikitie may be older than that: 24-25. Compare that to Karlaftis, who is 20, and at least for me Ebikitie is a tough sell compared to George. With all that said, after studying some of these prospects, I am not sure if 4th pick is a wise investment into anyone outside of Hutch and Kayvon. Karlaftis to me has a higher ceiling of others because of his athleticism and versatility, plus younger age, but I am not sure if there is a high chance he can be a great ED and whether he has a floor of above average ED. At #4 you want an impact player with Pro Bowl potential - a blue chip guy. Not someone who is a big gamble.

That is why I am not ruling out a trade up again. First of all, JD already did that once to ensure a blue chip guy in AVT, and it worked great. I don't see why that means this cannot be done again - it could be the opposite actually. And as far as price, it depends. We have 9 first round draft picks this year, no lower than round 5. How many rookies do we want to bring in this year? We already had a bunch of second year players and rookies last year, and it takes time to develop. If say Jags go Neal, and Detroit Hutch, maybe we can move up one spot to get Kayvon. I would give a second rounder for that. We still have 8 picks, 8 rookies coming in from the draft, that's not a small number. There could be trade downs later too.

 

I am super wary of Lawson coming back strong…I almost want to proceed with the assumption that we should not count on anything from him and plan accordingly….then if he comes back and still has a burst (not a sure thing at all with an Achilles) it’s gravy

but we need to add quantity edge this year for sure

 

I have to tell you, I don't see what you see in Karlaftis at all. He's fast and big, but not very good, and dogs it a lot on the field. I watched just about everything I could find on Karlaftis yesterday, and I'm no longer even interested in the Jets drafting him.

Following are my notes that I took while watching the video of Karlaftis.

Positives
Fast, good size

Good speed to power

Pretty good vs run, sometimes gets off blocks well and tackles the ball carrier, at other times cannot disengage and the ball carrier goes right past his position, on one play vs Iowa should have had the ballcarrier, but took a poor angle,

Does seem to have a knack for being where the ball is (fumble recoveries, interception)

Caused several fumbles

Mixed
Initially I thought he looks to have pretty good instincts, and eye for ball in the backfield. The more I watched however, the more that looked wrong. I saw quite a few plays where he was totally clueless where the ball was, and on several of those the RB went right by him

He has a good motor at times, but at a lot of other times not, doesn’t always keep working is content to just stay engaged with blocker.

Negatives
A lot of the big plays he made were because he was unblocked. I rarely saw him beat his man to get a sack or tackle for a loss.

Didn’t see one pass rush move – they were all speed rushes or speed to power. I did see him try a spin move a couple of times, but evidently it wasn't set up well, because it never worked.

Quite often he was content to just run into a double or triple team

Too upright, no bend/flexibility, appears to line up extra wide hoping to get to QB with speed – won’t work in the NFL. Since, he can’t bend, he often runs too wide and takes himself out of play or OT easily pushes him upfield out of the play

Doesn’t seem to use hands well to club OT’s hands down when he decides to go inside, vs Iowa after two plays the announcer commented about his good hand usage and how he worked with a lot of MMA hand-to-hand training – I watched both plays 3 times and on the first play saw no hand usage to disengage, the only hand movement was from his running and pumping his arms. On the 2nd play the LT was slow sliding his feet and getting out and Karlaftis used his hands to push himself off and propel himself towards the QB, but didn’t see any great hand usage.

OL and even TEs handle him easily one-on-one

In both the Oregon St. and Iowa games, he appeared to coast and take play off at times, not hustle if play went to opposite side of field, some of those times he could have been a factor with his speed, but wasn’t. I saw the same thing in the Ohio St. offense vs Purdue D YouTube video. He was also to blame for an Ohio St. Rushing TD, because he didn’t maintain gap discipline.

I never saw him run hard to help teammates when the action was away from him. He would just jog slowly along and several times could have made tackles.

If the Jets take him, I'll hope for the best, but I have to say right now that I hope that they don't. I'm willing to have my mind changed, however, so if you can point me to an analysis video or game tape that shows me something different, please do.

 

That's what Jeremiah's draft has, but don't hold your breath. When it's all said and done, I don't see Hamilton going ahead of Kayvon T. Maybe there is a chance Neal goes #1 and Kayvon is there at #3, and perhaps we can trade up a spot to get him if Houston thinks it is close between Hamilton and KT. But my gut tells me if we want KT, and there is some possibility to get him, it will be via small trade up, and will cost us at least a second rounder. I would pay, not sure if the opportunity will be there, but stranger things have happened.

I agree that we can't count on Lawson. The guy was injury prone to begin with, which is why he was available, and now he sustained the biggest injury he ever had on top of that. I would be ecstatic if he plays, but can we really count on him getting through a big part of the season given his now expanded injury history? Probably not. The problem is that getting quality Edge is very hard. No one trades these guys and they rarely hit the market unless they are injury prone (Lawson) or old (Curry). You mentioned "quantity edge", which I am sure was a typo, but perhaps that's the way to go. Perhaps take one in the second round if someone like Ebiketie or Enagbare falls and another in 3d and 4th, like Johnson. Perhaps between two of them, one will hit.

 

I don't see that trading up into the first two picks is a good idea given the multiple holes on this team that need to be filled. Seems to me that we need every draft choice and free agent signing we can get. Besides, with Carl Lawson, JFM, and Huff, we're not totally lacking in decent edge players.

I think we take one of the many edges that drop to the top of the second round and use him as a situational rusher while he develops into an every down player (e.g., I think Ebiketie will prove just as fast and explosive, although not as strong, as Hutch or Thibodeaux).

 

How do you feel about Cam Akers after coming back from the same injury? He appears to be back at 100%

 

I read both your posts and understand your POV. While I'm NOT saying that JD has to go crazy, or trade up, or overdraft someone out of need. And as I already said, he may be able to significantly improve the pass rush going the "committee" route. But the bottom line is, he DOES need to drastically improve the pass rush this season. I'm not saying he should be fired if he doesn't do that, but it should certainly make his seat smoke.

 

Sitting here watching the Titans vs Bengals I completely agree with you.
This kid Simmons has hands down taken over the game. At what point is Q Williams gonna destroy a O Coordinator's game plan?

I am a Michigan fan big time, and I think that I would rather have K Thibodaux vs Hutchinson. The bend and speed that kid plays with is unreal.

 

Who would you sign in FA? There are "guys" available, but they're either 30 or older and very expensive or no good. I don't see a single player on the list of FA Edges that I would waste money on other than Chandler Jones. Even at almost 32, he's going to be very expensive, and that's if he is even willing to come here? I'm sure that the Cardinals will seek to keep him.

 

I think Thibodeaux will be a bust. I like Karlaftis more than him.