but this is a different GM, different time, none of those players are on the team anymore. so it doesn't matter what we did 20 years ago. we have to look at what we have now and what we are building. I agree we don't need hamilton, it's ok if we pass. I just like him a lot. but we do need an edge badly. and a LBer, and a safety. the offense got loaded with zach, davis, moore, carter, becton, AVT, mcgovern, fant in the past 2 years with JD at the helm. all of them were high picks (except carter) or good paid free agents. we've done nothing for the defense except lawson who hasn't played a snap. we had the leagues worst defense by far. our offense despite the injuries was still middle of the pack and showed it can function even without zach.
I'm fully aware of what positions JD has drafted. IMO that is playing catchup in an offensive league. For much of the last 10 years, the Jets' offense was about at the level of a bad high school or middle school team. In addition, and more importantly JD drafted a rookie QB and needs to build around him to ensure that he succeeds. You don't do that by focusing on the D, regardless of how bad it may be. Once Zach develops, there will be plenty of time to fix the D. That doesn't have to happen this year. I think JD balanced the draft somewhat with his FA signings. The count was 5 defensive players to 5 offensive players and one STer, but more staraters were signed for the D side (3-2, every one of the D FA signees were likely to see both regular and plentiful snaps, and Rankins may have started more or played more snaps than Fatukasi. Feeney should have never seen the field, and Cole normally wouldn't have seen that many snaps. Had Lawson, Huff, and Joyner stayed healthy, the D would have been a lot better Defense C. Lawson L. Joyner J. Davis S. Rankins V. Curry STs J. Hardee Offense Corey Davis T. Kroft T. Coleman K. Cole D. Feeney Bold denotes starter
You can't win by having a great D and barely an NFL level offense, either. When you have a rookie QB, you build the offense around him. That is the #1 priority. Neither the D nor anything else should matter except ensuring that the rookie QB develops and turns into a FQB. This isn't the time to think about balancing offseason acquisitions between the defense and offense. With Lawson and Huff back healthy, with just a few FA additions at S, CB and DT, the D should be much better. If you use draft picks to fix the D rather than FA acquisitions, the D won't improve as much or as quickly because young players will be learning the system, adjusting to the NFL, and they make mistakes. Conversely, Zach is still learning and growing. Even if you added a bunch of veterans around him, there's still going to continue to be a learning curve. More than likely he isn't going to be great week 1. Having more of a veteran D would help keep things closer, and more likely to get off the field on 3rd downs providing the more opportunities for Zach that is your rationale for wanting to draft the defense and sign offense in FA. I think you have it backwards. There is a point to signing some veteran help for Zach at OG, TE and WR. Hopefully, we re-sign LDT and Berrios, and sign Schultz or Njoku in FA. We could use depth at WR, and that could come from a veteran, but we also need another topflight WR, and that will need to come via the draft more than likely. One has to have a very good to great offense to make the playoffs, and I believe we did see a shootout in the AFC semifinal and Championship game. As Zach, Fields, and perhaps Lance develop, there could be more shootouts in the playoffs and even in the SB.
This post is inaccurate. I've already pointed out that JD signed Lawson, Rankins, Joyner, Davis and Curry for the D. None of them worked out last year, but it's not like he didn't try to help the D. In the draft, he added a starter at slot/nickel corner in MC II, added our #2 or top backup CB in Echols. Added potential S depth in Pinnock. Added two players at LB in Sherwood and Nasirildeen whom the Jets remain high on and supposedly happy with at LB. He also added depth and a potential future starter in Marshall at DT. JD had to add all of those pieces to the offense, because it was pure shit. It wasn't even at an NFL level. I don't know how you can't see that.
Yes, the offense was favored with the earlier, better picks the past two years, but there are still holes. Just because you spent a ton of money on building a bridge across a river, doesn't mean you can then say, "Okay, now we need to stop building the bridge and focus on building the road" - the bridge is useless unless it goes all the way across the river. The offense needs a RG, a stud #1 WR, a stud TE, an upgrade at RB, and if Becton doesn't return to form a LT - that's far from being sustainable, and doesn't allow them to see whether Zach is the answer. And you're forgetting - or overlooking - that they paid Lawson a ton, and they're still paying Mosely a ton, and did sign 4 or 5 FAs altogether on "D". It's not like they're treating the defense like the redheaded stepchild the offense was treated like for almost 2 decades. The last statement is simply to try and give some rebuttal to "The defense is being ignored!" claim. The bottom line is that they can't fix everything all at once. Some things will have to be deferred. We've seen what deferring fixing the offense has produced. It's time to focus on that.
i'm not saying we can't improve the offense. we can take a WR in the mid rounds like 3-5th. we could aso sign a TE and take a TE with one of our 2nds. and/or sign a WR. We still have free agency ahead which will change draft plans for sure once we know who we have in place. with that said what happened the last 10 years is irrelevant since none of the players are on the team in a significant role prior to JDs arrival. We only have 2 hold overs in mosley who is likely gone after this season and Q who needs to be resigned. zach will develop better if he isn't playing down by 14 the 2nd time he has the ball in the game. a lot of his picks early on came when we were behind and he had to be risky which only snowballed. putting him in a position to just run the offense and get points is better then putting him in the position of having to sling it down by 14. and you cna't even count on rookies. even dumping a 1st into a WR isn't guaranteed to help him. I really think we need to address the defense early on in the draft. tell that to the saints who beat the bucs. You need a team good on both sides of the ball. more then half the playoff teams had a top 10 offense and defense. The jets offense wasn't good but a lot of that could be contributed to injuries, especially to the WR group. what we saw though is that our offense as it is can work. we had 3 different QBs put up 300 yard games. carter and more look like studs. davis is solid. zach has the talent and looked better at the end of the year. our o-line finished up as an average unit. all the work JD has put into the offense has it on the upswing and should be at least average next year. the defense was dead last in the NFL because it lacked talent. the only big injury was lawson. we need playmakers at every level and we need to create turnovers. nothing wins a game more then winning the turnover battle. teams are like 95% wins when they win the turnover battle by 2 or more. non of those were real signings. they were stop gaps. the only real signing on defense was lawson. rankins was 2 years and cheap, joyner was 1 year and cheap, davis was 1 year and cheap. vinny curry was 1 year and cheap. those signings are equalvalent to kelan cole who nobody points out as a signing because he was a stop gap. none of them were helping build the defense. they were just there to hold the fort until he could build a defense. adding 5-7th round picks doesn't mean much. we can spend all our 5ths and 7ths on offense then if you think it matters on paper. of course you can always get lucky but still. that's a bad point to make. when we spent out last 5 1sts and 2nds on offense and you are comparing it to a bunch of late picks on defense. I agree with all the offensive picks he made. and many are looking like they will pan out (save for mims) and carter was a steal in the 4th. lawson isn't getting a ton either. he's making like 8 mil less the leo williams makes. 2 decades doens't matter. ti would be like me saying well we drafted namath 60 years ago so maybe we should do that again, it got us a SB. none of the players drafted by the jets are in a significant role prior to JD except for 1 so the rest doens't matter
With these very words, it's crystal clear that your emphasis is on the D. Because of that we'll never come to any consensus or agreement. I think your approach would lessen the chances that Zach develops this coming year as he should [QUOTE}with that said what happened the last 10 years is irrelevant since none of the players are on the team in a significant role prior to JDs arrival. We only have 2 hold overs in mosley who is likely gone after this season and Q who needs to be resigned.[/QUOTE] I disagree that it's irrelevant. While none of those players are still here (actually Mosely and Q. Williams were part of that emphasis and are still here), we had good defenses during that time period, so there is a culture and history of the D playing well, being effective vs the run, etc. With the exception of one fluke season in 2015, We really have no culture or recent history of having a good, high caliber offense. We had a great OL for a year or two in 2009-2010, and some pretty good WRs, but the QB and RBs were average or below average. The D carried those teams. To go back to a really good offense, one has to go back to the early 2000s when Chad Pennington was healthy and we had Moss and Coles, and Curtis Martin. Again, I disagree. He will develop best when he has an excellent group of weapons around him and a rock solid OL in front of him. If he has those things. He's not going to consistently be down by 14 points. The offense will sustain drives, score points, and keep the opposing offense off the field, which will keep our D players rested and less exposed. I think idea that having a better D will help Zach develop without his having quality wepaons around him as totally offbase. Quoting one game is silly and does nothing to prove your point. We are talking about consistently winning, and until Zach develops, we're not going to consistently win with D. Your thinking is totally offbase on this. You're trying to put the cart ahead of the horse. We've done that too often in the past, and most of us do not want that again. Again, I disagree and think you misjudge the situation. C. Davis, C. Lawson, and Rankins were not stop-gap signings. I agree that Curry was a stopgap as was Joyner. They were the only D signings that were stop gaps. Lawson and Rankins are younger and I believe that they were signed with the hopes that they would be here for a while. I don't think Davis was a stop gap, either. He's also younger and has talent, and the Jets were hoping that with perhaps better coaching and returning to a 4-3, he could regain his level of play from his rookie season. If so, they would have extended him. It was more of a prove yourself deal. The fact that Cole was probably a stop gap, as was Kroft, does nothing to change the fact that JD did make signings to upgrade the D. [QUOTEI agree with all the offensive picks he made. and many are looking like they will pan out (save for mims) and carter was a steal in the 4th. lawson isn't getting a ton either. he's making like 8 mil less the leo williams makes. 2 decades doens't matter. ti would be like me saying well we drafted namath 60 years ago so maybe we should do that again, it got us a SB. none of the players drafted by the jets are in a significant role prior to JD except for 1 so the rest doens't matter[/QUOTE] Mosely and Q. Williams were both added before JD. So was Trumaine Johnson and JD cut him as soon as he could. The fact that Mosely was added in FA and is being paid a lot gives further credence to the fact that the Jets were focused on D rather than balance or the offense during the years prior to JD. When was the last time the Jets signed a FA offensive player to a big contract aside from QB? The last one I can think of that was even remotely close was Eric Decker in 2015 signed a five-year deal for $35 million. Aside from that, the offensive FA signings have been second tier, low $ contracts.
currently yes my emphasis is on signing players on offense to give zach proven vets to help and using the picks on D. and until someone can make a compelling argument as to why that's not good, it won't change. but i'm open to change if someone can give a good reason, but using what happened 20 years ago and talking about players we drafted who aren't on the team isn't an argument. the reality is if we were to bring in chark and shultz zach would be pretty loaded with proven talent. which helps more then a rookie most of the time as you can't depend on rookies. you could get a moore sure or you could get a mims. you could get a carter or you could get a perine. my argument is that adding proven talent around zach while building a better defense in the draft so we don't have the worst defense in the NFL would help him the most. is your counterpiont really an unknown draft pick would help him more as well as ignoring the defense? I said mosley and Q were the 2 holdovers but mosley is likely gone after 2022 and isn't part of the rebuild. Q needs to be resigned but likely JD will do that. I understand we've had good defensive years but haven't had a good offense in the past 20 years outside a couple of fluke seasons like the fitz and favre ones. but again making decisions now based on things in the past that aren't relevant isn't the correct way to run a team. As a fan, sure i'd love to see an explosive offense for once in my lifetime. but as an objective person it doesn't mean it's what's best for the team right now the o-line when healthy was pretty solid. we went from worst to middle of the pack and that's with injuries. with becton returning and if we can resign LDT we have a solid o-line already, one that should be above average barring injury. as far as weapons we have davis, carter, moore. plus he can bring in FAs like say a chark and schultz. of course 1 game isn't everything but the point was it isn't an offensive or defensive league when you really look at it. it's well rounded teams. 7 of the playoff teams had top 10 offenses and defenses. they were good teams not just good offenses. I never said lawson was a stop gap. or C.davis. not sure where that comes from. curry, joyner, and j.Davis (maybe thats where you got confused) were stop gap signings. ones that didn't work. so was rankins who signed 2 years for 5.5 per year. that's not a big signing at all. J.davis got a higher average. rankins was a backup as well not even a starter. outside of lawson none of the defensive signings were impactful or long term, we need to start drafting defensive talent. the fact we only signed 1 impact free agent on defense who fit into future plans and used 0 of our top 5 picks the last 2 drafts on defense and the fact we had the worst defense in the NFL are all clear signs we need to improve there. again it doens't matter what GMs did before him. it's the state of the team now. mosley isn't in the long term plans but we can wait a year for his replacement. that's not urgent. Q is a cornerstone of the defense but he's the only player JD inherited on defense that is still here and can be a part of this defense for the future. JD hasn't signed anyone to massive deals really. lawson was the biggest followed by davis, mcgovern, fant. 3 of the top 4 contracts he handed out were on offense and all still on the team. look how JD has used money and assets for players who fit into our plans for the future in 2 years Offense 1) becton 1) AVT 1) wilson 2) mims (probably a bust though) 2) moore 4) carter davis 12.5/yr fant 9.1/yr mcgovern 9/yr defense lawson 15/yr The offense already has the talent and can add a couple of FAs but the defense needs a lot of help. I don't see how using our top 2 picks on defense is a bad thing. we still have 2 2nds after that and it'll still be heavily weighted towards offense
I'm done discussing this issue with you. Both Colorado Contrails and I have laid out a clear, rational reason, but you refuse to see it. It's pointless to continue this discussion because it's clear that your opinion isn't going to change, and neither is mine.
your reasoning has no validity. It's like me saying eggs are bad because waffles are good. one has nothing to do with the other. I'm telling you that but instead of giving a better reason you double down, get mad, and walk away. that's fine and all. you do you. but if you can't see the flaw in your logic then IDK what to tell you.
It most certainly is. One who doesn't learn from history is doomed to repeat history. It's not about the individual player as you keep trying to make it. It's about the approach and reasoning you are using. It's flawed. Again you show that you just don't get it. "Pretty solid" isn't good enough when you're trying to develop a rookie QB. Injuries are a part of the game. Any Jets fan knows that, but you're in denial. The Jets aren't anywhere close to trying to be a well-rounded team. They're still patching holes in the life raft. They need to ensure that Zach succeeds. That means putting most of their resources into building the offense, so there's no doubt as to where the problems, if any, lie if the offense isn't playing at a very high level by the end of the season. ROFLMAO Dude, you are so irrational, you don't know what you've said. Here's what you said:
ROFLMAO Dude, you need to stop. It's nothing of the kind. Your own reasoning is too flawed for you to possibly understand. I'm not mad, just not talking to a brick wall on this issue any more. It's a waste of time and energy.
learning from your mistakes is always good. I never said not to do that. the mistakes were drafting too many players on one side and drafting bad players. so that only proves my point of not drafting any defense will create the same issue. you have to balance out your team. had the jets drafted aaron donald, ramsey, von miller, fred werner, nick bosa, etc in that time we'd have a pretty stacked team and nobody would be complaining. rome wasn't built in a day. we aren't going from leagues worst to elite in a season or 2. it's 1 step at a time. you think drafting burks and mcbride and doing nothing on defense is better for zach then signing schultz and chark and drafting hamilton and johnson? is that the hill you are dying on? I never said they were, I said we should be building to that instead of building to stack 1 side of the ball and ignore the other I think your reading comprehension goes to the toilet when you get angry. read it again. It's exactly what I said. you are trying to quote me saying i'm changing my mind or lying but it's exactly what I said and just proving my point. calm down, relax, have a beer, and read it with a clear mind before you go off the rails. your a good poster most of the time, but sometimes when people don't agree with you, you jump off the rails, start insulting them, and misread what they read and then call them names due to your own lack of reading comprehension.
my reasoning is solid. i'll break it down easy for you you: we've drafted mostly defense for 20 years, so now we should draft offense because that didn't work and it's an offense league me: the fact we drafted defense all those years is irrelevant because the defense we have now is the worst in the league and lacks talent. none of those players drafted are on the team. the issue was we didn't balance it out and draft both sides as well as we drafted too many busts. we only have 2 drafted players on defense from before JD took over in a significant role for us (foley and Q). going all offense now is a classic over-correction and is doomed to fail. we've spent a lot on offense and have a young core in wilson, moore, carter, AVT, becton and solid vets like fant, davis, mcgovern. all of our premium picks (round 1 and 2) in the past 2 drafts (5 total) have went to offense. 3 out of our 4 biggest FA signings in the past 2 years is on offense. It's time to address the defense to build a well rounded team, furthermore your claims of it's an offensive league doesn't hold up since 7 of the playoff teams had top 10 offenses and defenses. they were well rounded. 2 teams with a top 10 offense failed to make the playoffs due to lack of defense you: your an idiot and i'm talking to a brick wall
That's not what I said, but if you want to take it that way, fine. I tried saying that we just see it differently and moving on. Even now you're still like a dog with a bone.
we can move on. I don't hold onto things. But if you do have any actual theory to back up your claims that doesn't involve what we did 20 years and 5 GMs ago i'd be happy to hear it
he led them because AB missed time with injury and evans took all the double teams. he's never had to be a 1. I'm not paying 20 mil a year for a guy who mostly plays in the slot and never has been "the guy" that's how you waste money in FA
He had more yards/game than Brown even factoring in the missed games. Literally the perfect fit for what the Jets wanna do. Great route runner, versatile, can play inside and out. Not sure what you’re watching, he’s a stud.
