That was a little disheartening to see him get uprooted and dumped like that. I've been watching (Jonah) the last few games and he's been fairly airtight until allowing a couple bad leakers tonight.
Although my god... just now on that third and 10 he blocked one guy, shoved him off and picked up another guy and basically single handedly allowed that 1st down pass to happen. I'm no film breakdown guy but that looked pretty unbelievable live.
Williams did a respectable job tonight, won some and lost some against a DE who is most likely a top 15 ish pick. He showed his limitations though. When the running game calls for power he was unable to get good push in short yardage, but his movement skills are good and his hand placement is fantastic, which helps negate is less than idea arm length. He is going to be a good nfl lineman, but not a great one. So ask yourself this, are you spending #3 over all for 5 years of Kelvin Beechum type play? I’m not.
I wouldn't either. I still believe the ideal moves for the Jets are to sign Lawrence(big if), trade down to a QB needy team, and take Little with at the new 1st round slot.
Yeah he recovered in that game for sure. Still not the rock I expected him to be. Too many good pass-rushers to take Williams @ 3 IMO. Josh Allen.
That is why this match up was so good as draftniks. You got to see Williams against guys who are going to be NFL lineman next year. He looked ok last night, not great which is exactly what I expected of him.
His stiffness on the top of his pass pro drops..which is even present when he actually FINISHES his block is what really scares me There are too many speed rushers who make their living at bending the edge at the top of protection drops. This guy could get eaten alive in certain games. Although hes a better prospect it could be the same deal as Erik Flowers. And ironically i think the giants will like him.They arent a team that worries about OL stiffness in recovery.They like technicians w square builds,good centers of gravity & torque.Thats Jonah Williams
Gonna have to watch a lot of Ferrel and some more of Allen. Clelin Ferrel was really good the past couple of years in terms of pass rush production. Though, Allen I think has more upside, can do more on the field, Clelin Ferrel just screams proven pass rush productivity at the next level right from the start, probably can get him at like 7. Damn forgot about Polite from Florida and Montez Sweat too, so many good pass-rushers
If your watching the Edge guys don't for get Brian Burns from Florida State. Really good at bending the corner and coming around the edge, but lighter than I like as an edge guy.
This is the internal philosophical debate I'm struggling with. Jonah may not be an all-time great but he is a near-lock to be a very good nfl lineman (and I think he's a much bigger talent than Beechum is/was no?) So to me there are a couple key points here. 1) Even is Josh Allen is a better NFL prospect in a vacuum, which seems undeniable, and he goes out and gets 11 sacks a year or whatever does that even matter if our offense is still sputtering or even god forbid, Darnold gets carted off the field on a cart because his O-line is complete crap? I think the Jets #1 team need now that they got the franchise QB is to A) protect him and 1A) get him some weapons. 2) To that end.... if we think that. Jonah seems to be the singular best bet to get grade A talent for the offensive line until the 2020 draft at the earliest no? Like everybody else I agree the dream scenario is to trade down a few picks but until that actually happens..... 3) This may be thinking like a complete pansy but we all know the list of either outright failures or varying degrees of disapointments our top defensive draft picks have been the last several years. Whatever else happens with Jonah Williams you as 100% as possible KNOW he's not going to be a complete bust or failure. The baseline here is a very good player that even if he plays right tackle long term will at the very worst keep things moving forward towards the goal. I know in a way that's loser thinking but at the same time there IS something to be said for security/dependability. A solid B+ in the hand might be better than chasing after a potential A+ that Quinton Coples or Dee Milliners on us.
Man, this Jonah Williams guy is looking more like Ereck Flowers. It seems like a big reach at the #3.
No way then take him. Alabama players have NOT been the gang-busters in the NFL during Saban's reign that they have been in college. Remember, they only play 3-4 games at most with even reasonable competition. And that competition is not even at the lower levels of NFL quality except in very limited numbers. If Williams is not a definite Pro Bowler (forget All-Pro, like Quenton Nelson is likely to be, who we would have taken at #6 next year if we didn't trade up), then don't pick him. We can NOT miss on this pick. If he's solid but not dominating, OK...even at #3. But there can NOT be questions about his run-blocking and/or pass-blocking. He has to be NFL quality (Top 20 or so) at both. Or don't take him.
Fair points. Don't trade down unless we get 50-75% more in value points. Are you SURE -- or are the experts sure -- that Williams is a solid B+? After last night, I'm not sure.
You Patch holes in free agency, but you build through the draft. We still have Beachum under contract for this year and he was not the biggest liability on the Oline by any means. We need to replace both guards and a center which will be difficult (We will most likely see winters back). That said, if your drafting, need comes into play, but it should only come into play when you have two prospects of similar skill level. Say you have a numeric system and have on guys as a 71 and one as a 69, but you really lack talent and dept at the 69, sure go for it. This is not that Case. Allen is a top talent, Williams has a low floor but not much room to grow. He's already a polished player and is not going to learn a ton at the next level. Allen has the physical traits to dominate at the next level with some room to improve his pass rushing skills. Williams is a sound blocker technique wise but has physical limitations. While we may want an upgrade at tackle, its not an easy fix this year. Our best bet is to retain Beachum, try to sign the best interior lineman or two possible, and draft for talent to help Lay the foundation for the next staff moving forward. We need athletes that scare opposing teams not just guys that are decent at the job they do.
I'm sure that the "experts" are sure. lol! so that probably means he'll get released in August and Greg Little will make the HOF. And I'm sure others will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe top pedigree offensive linemen like Jonah are about the most projectable safest bets there are in the NFL draft. I'm operating under the assumption that the realistic worst case is that Jonah Williams becomes a very solid (above average) starting NFL right tackle. Last year Quenton Nelson was the guy I wanted the most for the Jets outside of a franchise QB and I still wish we could have him. But lets not forget that Leo uprooted and dumped him that one time when they played earlier this year and its not like his star has dimmed any. In fact its brighter than ever as far as I can tell. All these great linemen get beat once in awhile.
Yeah I agree with all of that. I think in the Jets situation that's the area for debate is just how high is the ceiling for Allen assuming he's even available at #3. At some point it just becomes stupid not to take the shot at the great great player. But for the point in time the Jets find themselves at imho protecting/growing Darnold is of such paramount importance that the gap between say Jonah Wiliams and Josh Allen's talent ceiling has got to be pretty damn far apart to do anything other than help this kid develop and succeed. I think my opinion at this point is to still hold our nose and take the offensive lineman all things considered. Its boring and unexciting but I think it'll lead to better things later on.
Figured I'd bump this but great eye ... just saw 3 different games with him and this guy is a stud EDGE pass rusher. I like him far more as a pass rusher compared to Josh Allen. He's got more moves then Josh Allen for sure and he has long arms. One major trait I love about a pass rusher prospect is the hand usage, and his is pretty damn good. Good knack for stripping the football. Very explosive off the jump. I hear he's up to 245 @ 6'5 ... Aldon Smith?
Burns is definitely impressive.Glides on the edge,good bend & can flatten to the QB. I do think Allen is a superior pass rusher w his hand in the dirt. Better get off(not that Burns isnt good),Flattens w ease & more explosive. Burns may have better bend however.
The one thing I haven't seen Allen do much is use counter moves against a lineman when they stop his first move as a pass rusher. Burns seems to have better hand usage as well. They both have good bends for sure, might even give that edge to Allen. Allen is more explosive no doubt about it. Size, speed and versatility. Burns has a more of an arsenal of pass-rushing moves and counters. He's the better technician I think. If we trade down, Burns should be high on that list.
