Even if I did find someone who met your description you'd just say that the person in question wasnt a good player so that is probably pointless. But, off the top of my head I can think of an 3rd round LB who played in half or less of his teams games and recorded fewer tackles than games played. Jeremiah Trotter -- ever heard of him.
The fact that the coaching staff and the FO that took the Jets to 10 win season and the playoffs in thier first year picked Schlegel in the 3rd round. The fact that Kassell has been a starter at Tennesee before coming to the Jets.
the birds just come in and you shoot them. :lmao: btw biggundewayne, ur avator reminds me of a monkey or gurilla sitting stooped in a tree lol
Schlegel has BUST written all over him. No, really he does and it's in permanent marker. The guys making excuses for Schlegel's lack of play are like the guys that tell their kids "winning is not what's important, it's that you tried ...". When your kid is sweeping the floor of some elementary school at least he'll look back and remember is fun childhood. Insane Ramblings ... This is a multi-million dollar business and he got 3rd round money which I'm guessing is alot (too lazy to look up contract). To those of you basing his playing/not playing on other players at his position making more money ... to that I say, huh. In case you didn't notice, everyone was in the same boat last year regarding our new defense and NONE of the chosen starters distinguished themselves in such a way that Schegel should ride the bench ALL season. As a matter of fact Kassell and Chatham were horrible and Vilma did no better than "hold the fort" last year. NFL careers average 4 years (FACT...look it up) Stop comparing our Schegel to other team's 3rd rounders ... they aren't going to Super Bowl and in our minds, we eventually are so we can't except Status Quo. I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again (many times) but the start of this guys career has not foreshadowed too much success. I dont think of the anti-schlegel brigade were expecting him to start in 06 or get "significant" playing time at LB, but we did expect to see him play in the rotation by week, say, 12. Actions speak louder than words and the multi-million Schlegel made less tackles than Mike Nugent last year. Let's stop expecting less from this organization. Shake off the "same ol' Jets" mentality and demand excellence.
they drafted like 2 linebackers and let kassell go what that tell you. Kassell hasnt shown me anything that warrent me trading barton and starting him.
13th Attempt. I'm not the one comparing him to other teams third rounders. I'm just pointing out that third rounders are usually not counted on as starters or significant contributors in the their first seasons (in fact, most dont pan out at all). Certainly Schlegel played less than many and less than I expected. Looking at the Jets (notice I'm only talking about the Jets) and the D they ran it is important to take note of the fact that they had to dress 7 LBs every week (4 starters, at least two back ups, and the ST LB Spencer) to dress Schlegel (who wasnt in the two deep) would mean dressing 8 Lbs (Almost 20% of the teams active players would have had to be LBs). So, why wasnt Schlegel in the two deep? 1) He was a rookie learning a new system. 2) He had Vilma, Barton, and Kassell for competition. Vilma is the star of the team and probably its best player. Barton was an 8 year veteran and had a couple of years experience in a 3-4. Kassell was a 5 year veteran and, while not the greatest player, was brought in for a couple of year specifically for depth and incase Barton got injured. Schlegel as a rookie had some serious competition for the two deep. 3) People on this board and others ripped the D and the LBs in particular a new one (you did in your post) because as veterans they had difficulty adjusting too and making plays in the new D. Hell, even Jonathan Vilma has been questioned by the press and fans about his play. Can you imagine what you would have been saying about Schlegel if he, almost inevitably, struggled along with the rest of the veterans in the new system? Why would Mangini put Schlegel in that position? 4) Late in the season, by game 12 as you suggest, the Jets were in the middle of a playoff run. Thats is certainly not the time to replace one of your veteran LBs with a rookie. 5) Vilma was the freakin' defensive captain and otherwise a team leader. What do you think it would have done to moral etc. if they benched him in favor of Schlegel (Hell, what would your reaction have been?). 6) Barton made 2.3 million last year and is due to make 3 million this year. Once the Jets decided to keep him for the 06 season they had to play him. Why? a)Because sitting a veteran would have hurt team chemistry and caused problems for the coach. b) To get value out of Barton he had to play and being a veteran with 3-4 experience he had an advantage over Schlegel. c) If the Jets hoped to trade Barton to avoid paying him 3 million this year then he had to play. He would have no value to the team if he didnt play. Your right that the average NFL career lasts 4 years. But that doesnt mean you play every rookie because you dont wont to waste a year. If you did then the average NFL career would be even shorter because teams would feel constant pressure to replace their veterans (heck you can only count on 4 years from any one) with rookies. The average career is 4 years because lots of guys careers only last through the first few weeks of their first camp or maybe one season on the practice squad. If you factor those out I'd be willing to bet you that the average career was more like 6 or 7 years. Calling Schlegel a reach in terms of draft position (if you are only looking at the draft) is fine I guess though a bit short sighted in my opinion. But if he goes on to have a productive career for the Jets over the next 3 years will anyone really care that he was a reach? A third round pick isnt expected to be a super star. They are expected to be productive players who contribute to their teams success. I dont think you can judge whether or not a player will do that based on their rookie season. Oh and by the way, a kid whose parent tells them they sucked because they failed to win in their first season will be sweeping the floor of a penetentiary thinking how much pleasure they got from kicking the crap out of that parent. Next.
Your arguments state the obvious, and add no value to anyone with even the least bit of Jets knowledge. And I love how you say that we dress 7 lb's... that is more than than most teams, and weakens your argument even more! Bottom line-- if he was good enough, he would have played, and he has done nothing to make me think that he will be playing anytime soon.
Then your saying that my arguements are obviously right? If four of the LBs are starters -- two at OLB not ILB -- one of the other LBs who dresses is also an OLB and BTW the Special Teams captain -- the other ILB is a 5 year veteran and an excellent ST, and the other LB is the Special Teams specialist how does that weaken my argument exactly. It basically means that Schlegel if Schlegel wasnt in the two deep he wouldnt be dressing. See, teams that run a 4-3 only need 3 starting linebackers and two guys in the two deep (one in the middle and one for the outsides) if their Special Teams specialist isnt an LB that leaves one or two of the seven LB positions open for competition among what is probably a smaller linebacking corps. He did play, so I guess he's good enough. My arguments are merely intended to counter the blanket assumptions that he isnt good because he didnt play. My opinion is that any or more likely all of the arguments I have made are just as plausible an explanation for why he didnt play as your simplistic statement that he didnt play because he sucked.
Buddy, what you wrote is just a bunch of crap everyone knows already. Barton makes millions, vilma is the captain, can't disrupt chemistry-- none of that explains why he played in 4 games, and then went back to not dressing. His competition isn't vilma and barton-- it's a bum like spencer, and Brad Kassel, who is far from dominant. Want to know what I remember about Kassel? A punt bouncing off him for a turnover, and a TD thrown by him because he was out of position. If AS can't get a little time over him and Spencer, in year one that's a VERY bad sign. Teams will usually put a rookie in the game even if they haven't clearly won the job, because they hope they can develop-- him sitting as a 3rd rounder says A LOT.
14. Spencer is a full time, first team, special teamer. Its not a position thats open for competition. If you have the job its yours or they bring in someone else to do it -- McClover, Myers, Spencer last year. Kassell over Schlegel is the bigger question. I think Kassell's veteran status gave him a leg up over Schlegel coming out of camp. He didnt have to be dominant to be Barton's stand in. He was coming off his best couple of seasons and came in as a FA signing (I think) specifically to bridge the gap between Barton and the next guy -- I think it will be Schlegel. As such, you play him because you brought him in -- paid him -- to play. Late in the season I think the play off run the Jets were on cost Schlegel his chance to play in Kassells place. No matter how bad Kassell was he was still the guy who had been playing. The last thing you would want is to have a rookie cost you the playoffs or a playoff game. I think if the Jets had been out of the play offs by week 12, Schlegel would have gotten some time for development as you pointed out. I was dissapointed that Kassell continued to get the nod every week over Schlegel. Again, I'm only offering what I think are plausible alternatives to the "Schlegel didnt play so he must suck" theory that you and so many of the football "experts" on this board seem so fond of repeating.
yea i guess anybody that has a name or avatar of a player they have a love affair with them. im just defending the guy. and what i was trying to state about leonard and pouha is people on this board want a player to do well for whatever reason then continue to argue for them. I EXPECT THIRD ROUND PICKS TO BE ACTIVE FOR GAMES AND CONTRIBUTE.
You need to stop and think before you question someone else's knowledge about football, especially when you base your whole silly argument on why A. Schlegel sucks, and how DRob is some super star player who has been held back by playing out of position. I'm sure I know enough about football to know that your Drib hasn't done squat considering where he was drafted, and the time hes had at the NFL level to achieve recognition as an elite D lineman! Do you think he has lived up to a top 5 draft pick? I sure as hell don't. While Drob is not an awful player, he is no young Warren Sapp. But average doesn't cut it when your a top 5 pick. OK, A. Schlegel, no one was drooling over this guy in the thread. It was just a feel good story, plain and simple. No one was making anything out of it, until you came in with your gun blazing ignorant post about how he sucks, and is a bust. So what the guy hunts, so what the guy didn't play but a few games, does that give you the necessary need to start ripping the guy, or others for discussing him in this thread? This is his first year, and he has not had time to prove what he can do. And how can you make such a stink over his lack of accomplishments? I mean come on, he was a late first day pick. Not a top five.
your competly right. i was out of line by saying AS was a bust. i hope the our 3rd rounder this year is inactive 3/4 of the time and has 2 tackles.
it takes 3-5 years for a draftee to be judged by competant evaluators! So glad that you can do it in one. Can you share your expertise with ERIC MANGINI. He could use you on his staff. LOL PS: I was a seasons ticket holder at UK. DROB was never as good as you imply nor has he reached greatness with the JETS. He is a vastly talented player that continues to plod along. Possibly too many position changes are hurting him but he is actually now playing about as well as he did at UK. NOT GREAT!
well in 3-5 yrs he will be 29 or 31.. cant see how this benefits us when we have to groom him through his prime years. Gold help us if he loses a step.:wink: during his groom years.
A few more thoughts raised by several posts made by others on this thread. Age: Yep, he was an older than average rookie and as such will have a shorter career than others. But, the Jets only signed him for four years and paid him the league minimum last year. By the time he's 29 he will be in exactly the same contract and age position as Eric Barton (assuming he plays, stays healthy, etc). So, for the Jets his age really doesnt matter. If he had been 22 last year he would be 26 at the end of his first contract and the Jets would have to decide whether or not to resign him for the years in his prime if he played all four and had a good first four seasons. In that situation, if they decided to keep him, they'd probably have to pay quite a bit and sign him to a contract that would extend until his early thirties. If (he plays, is good, etc) the Jets choose to resign him at the end of his contract when he's 29 they will be in a more advantageous position -- they might have to pay as much per year, but the market will probably not bare a 5 year contract, therefore the Jets could resign him for a less expensive total contract. When you think about it from a contract and financial point of view (again assuming Schlegel is the player I think he is) then the Jets are getting his prime years at a bargain price. Speed: Baamf posted some excellent info about Schlegel at the combine comparing him to DQwell Jackson and Abdul Hodge who were the two ILBs drafted ahead of him -- BTW Hodge a second round pick didnt play in all the Packers games. These numbers showed that in the 40 Schlegel is slower (I think his fastest time was a full tenth slower than Jacksons fastest time) But he's also bigger than those two guys -- and stronger. Also, his speed over short distances is almost the same and his standing broad jump was longer or as long. This tells us that his speed to the ball carrier in front of him is equal to that of guys drafted to play the same (or similar) positions in front of him and that his ability to change directions -- which is what the jump actually predicts -- is equal to or better. Now ask yourself what do you want in a 3-4 ILB? A track star that is 20 to 30 pounds lighter than Schlegel or a big guy that can move quickly over short distances and change directions well who is stronger and heavier? I think the prototypical 3-4 ILB is a big, strong guy that moves quickly over short distances so they can take on Olinemen, full backs and deliver blows and make tackles near the LOS. Which brings me to Jonathan Vilma: My personal opinion is that Vilma can be a successfull, productive, even great LB in the 3-4. If the Jets still played a 4-3 would I or anyone else be questioning Vilma's ability to be successful? No. So what about the 3-4 and Jonathan Vilma makes us even question Vilma's ability to be successful in that system? Its that the 3-4 relies on big ILBs who can take on Olinemen, lead blockers, fill gaps and make tackles near the LOS and Vilma is not a particularly big ILB. The irony of criticizing Schlegel's ability to play 3-4 ILB for possessing the exact physical qualities that Vilma lacks and that will make it more difficult for him to be successful at 3-4 ILB is staggering.
honest opinion 3-4 yrs from now were do you see schlegel? my opinion he wont get off the bench.. i think hobson will eventaully will be moved to MLB. and a OLB will be brought in.
All of the opinions I've given to this point have been honest ones. I honestly think that he will either be the starting ILB coming out of camp or earn the spot by the 4th or 5th week. I think he will become an anchor on the field and off for the team that Mangini is trying to build. I think he will be a productive and successful linebacker whose reputation for toughness and good play is higher among coaches and players in the league than among fans (this is true of his Ohio State playing days). I think he will always be overshadowed by more physically gifted and flashy players that play around him and but will contribute to their success and the success of the Jets D by doing his job, very well, and asking for no credit. I think that eventually he will be the Defensive signal caller. I think that every year fans will question his value to the team and be yammering about drafting a new young ILB to replace him, but he'll keep doing his job. I think two years from now the Jets will give him a 2 or 3 year contract extention for good, but not outrageous money, locking him in for the rest of his most productive playing days. I think over the next three years he'll average 95-105 tackles, 2 or 3 sacks per season, and 8 or so TFL. When he's done in 8 years or so he'll retire, buy some land, hunt, maybe do a little coaching, and love spending time with his family. He'll keep his Super Bowl ring in the box it came in, in a drawer somewhere.
so next year if he sits on the inacitive list all season again. he will be considered a legit bust right? cause i really dont see him playing. when there supposably tryna lock Hobson up. and are looking at OLB linebackers in the draft. and i know im not in the jets FO so i dont know anything for sure. but reports have come out with them showing interest in spencer and the kid from penn state.
