Sanchez's Worth

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Noam, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. jetlife21

    jetlife21 Well-Known Member

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    If Manning is fully and healthy, wants to play and signs with the Jets we'll be forced to trade the "Sanchize" Four road playoff wins sets him up with a nice resume for teams that need a qb and fail to get RG3 like the Browns, Seahawks, Cardinals and Redskins
     
  2. Royce Parker

    Royce Parker Well-Known Member

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    What makes you think that Sanchez will be benched next year? It's amazing how after one frustrating season people actually root against our own QB. I don't get it.
     
  3. mr nyjet

    mr nyjet Well-Known Member

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    see free agency or the trade market. matt flynn, or orton, brady, etc.

    could also trade for a joe webb, or draft a qb in rounds after 2nd.

    could also trade down in draft to get extra pick to use on qb .
     
  4. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    I've seen the Jets go to free agency for a QB before: Neil O'Donnell. Wow that was a keeper. I've seen them grab Boomer Esiason - that was the winner the world awaited. I've seen them sign Vinny Testaverde and get a great season out of him but never a Super Bowl. I've seen them draft Chad Pennington, and no QB was ever smarter or more accurate than he was - at least not in Jets-land. I've seen them trade for Brett Favre. No win there.

    Sometimes you just have to take a stand and making a stand with a 25 year old QB who plays with composure on the road in the post-season is a great place to make that stand.

    I don't care who the Jets are going to get next because I know exactly who they have gotten in the past and there's likely no Super Bowl there.
     
    #24 Br4d, Jan 30, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  5. Royce Parker

    Royce Parker Well-Known Member

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    Brady?? Did I miss something?
     
  6. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    The mass hallucinations that Rex's blarney, Tanny's incompetence last winter, spring and summer, and Sanchez inability to deal with both of the above have caused.
     
  7. Royce Parker

    Royce Parker Well-Known Member

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    +1

    It's amazing how little faith Jets fans have.
     
  8. skeleton_frames

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    This is a really good point. All we can do is hope...
     
  9. Braylon4ever

    Braylon4ever Active Member

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    I sure am glad mr nyjet isn't our GM. [​IMG]
     
  10. SienaSaints

    SienaSaints Well-Known Member

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    Very true. Sometimes players need a little adversity to become better players. Even though he wasn't the best the 2 previous seasons he made it to two title games and didn't face much criticism for his inconsistency. Same with Rex.

    I still don't believe everything that I read about Holmes either.
     
  11. Joe Willie White Shoes

    Joe Willie White Shoes Well-Known Member

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    Another absurd post to start another ridiculous thread. The premise is bad enough, but the analysis???? Moore, who was kicked to the curb already, is better than Sanchez based on a half season of work with the Fins. McCoy is bad but tough and mobile, but Sanchez is just bad. The Jaguars ready to give up on Gabbert. Grossman has more upside than Sanchez and unlike Sanchez can make plays out of the pocket. Arizona is a likely trade partner so Sanchez can be the third string QB. My God, what a post!!!
     
  12. Nilton

    Nilton Active Member

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    Depending on the back up we sign..and if his poor play continues it's a possibility he gets benched.
     
  13. fozzi58

    fozzi58 Well-Known Member

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    Obvious retarded thread is obvious.

    Holy Christ. When is the QB madness going to end.
     
  14. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    I am glad you are so knowledgeable and here to insult those who disagree with you. What a wonderful person you must be in real life. I bet people really love having you around, But then again maybe that is why you feel the need to insult strangers on a message board.

    But in regards to the alleged substance of your post. if you were a little less angry, not so busy insulting others and telling everyone how wonderful you are you may have noticed a few things which separates other QBs from Sanchez.

    In regards to Moore watch him play. Notice he moves his head around the field while the play is going on. Watch him go through his progressions and make decisions. This is what separates him from Sanchez. I am not saying he is great nor a QB a team can build around but he has essential qualities that Sanchez does not have. Have you ever noticed Sanchez move his head around during a play? Do you ever notice Sanchez looking at more than 1/3 of the field. He makes his pre-snap read and locks onto his primary receiver. He may end up going to a dump off outlet and he has made progress with that the last two years since LT arrived. But watch his head it never moves. Given Sanchez's problems with pre-snap reads and everything the Jets have done to simply the offense to make those reads easier its not surprising he has so many problems.

    The second point about Moore and this goes into McCoy as well is what happens when the play breaks down or the read is not there. When Sanchez is confused on his read he breaks down in the pocket and panics. Which usually means holding onto the ball, shuffling feet and not looking downfield. It is apparent if you watch the games. Now watch what Moore and McCoy do when the play breaks down they improvise, they scramble, they throw the ball away they take hits. Do you ever see Sanchez throw the ball away while taking a hit? Almost never. His normal answer is to fall down into a fetal position if there is even a hint of a rush. When the play breaks down he folds up because he is soft. Terrell Suggs in a very derogatory way said Sanchez is soft. Now I think that is mentally soft. He just panics and folds up. This is what separates Sanchez from McCoy and Moore. Shottenheimer and another CS talked a bit about it when he said Sanchez panics when his read is not there which is why the Jets had placed such an emphasis on doing things to simply Sanchez's pre-snap read last year. This is why Sanchez is at the top of the league in sacks but at the bottom of the league in QB hits. He is soft.

    Notice the difference in Sanchez on the rare occasions he uses his legs to escape the pocket rather than running blindly into a defender. When he is in open space he loses the awkwardness he has in the pocket and plays much more instinctively. I think it can be argued while in the pocket Sanchez is the least instinctive QB we have seen in a long while. He has no pocket awareness and normally no idea of what is happening around him. But watch him in open space and the game seems to slow down for him and he plays much better. Part of that has to be there is less thought involved he can just look for an open man and throw it or run to day light.

    In regards to Gabbert there have been lots of rumors the Jags are close to giving up on him but do not want to invest again in a high draft pick QB. They need someone to either play while he sits, be there in case he flops again or to simply takeover.

    Grossman, yes he has much more upside than Sanchez. Both are highly mistake prone. But Grossman when hot can be very good. He can make plays from the pocket. He can stick a ball in between defenders, hit receivers in stride and carry a team on his arm. Something Sanchez can not do. Sanchez cannot throw the ball with any accuracy outside the hashmarks. He can throw a slant, play action pass over the middle and an endzone fade. Thats about his entire repertoire. He is dependent on a strong running game, play action and receivers being wide open. If they are covered even slightly there is almost no chance. Grossman is a gunlinger who like a Testaverde when hot can carry the team. Sanchez at best is a game manager who when hot will not lose the game for you. Sanchez has all of Grossman's negatives of game killing mistakes without the upside. I am no fan of Grossman but yes he is a better QB than Sanchez.

    The one advantage Sanchez has on all of these QBS is the ability to run planned QB designed runs at the goalline. This makes him very dangerous and allows him to use play action very effectively at the goal line. He got a number of very easy play action TDs this year. One can give Credit to Moore or Shotty but Sanchez deserves credit to. He is very athletic and his athleticism was well used at the goal line last year.

    Almost all of Sanchez's problems are mental. Not being able to read defenses, not being able to react to the speed of the game, panicking when things break down and giving up on plays. Can he improve on this? Certainly. He made some real progress at the end of the year when the CS put an emphasis on stepping up in the pocket during practice. Similar emphasis on throwing the ball way or to an outlet when rushed may pay dividends. His slow release might be able to improved as well. His ball security issues can be worked on to. His mechanics in the pocket particularity his footwork can be greatly improved. But I don't see him ever being a QB that will be able to make quick defensive reads, be comfortable in the pocket, be able to pro long plays with his feet like Manning, Brady Ben or Rogers or be able to make fast decisions in a split second. The NFL requires QBs to process information and make quick decisions in an instant. In a sense its like playing speed Chess. Sanchez may be a good chess player when given time to think but he is terrible when he has to make decisions In an instant. The game is way to fast for Sanchez right now. It may slow up but I doubt ever enough for him to be more than a game manager type QB.

    In regards to Arizona they have a long long history of stupidity. They have had some of the worst draft blunders in the last 30 years. Their draft history makes Mike Hickey's Jet drafts look like that of a Hall of Famer. Last year the Cardinals got fleeced on the Kolb trade and rumors are high they want to replace him and Skelton with another FA QB. My guess is Sanchez will do even worse with the cards than Kolb and will quickly become a 3rd stringer.

    But realistically if Sanchez is traded or even cut, are there any other teams than the 7 I listed he could start for next year? It is a very hard case to make. Cut him tomorrow and tell me who would be lining up for his services? Of those 7 realistically there are only 2-3 maybe 4 teams that would be interested in him. Add in his salary numbers in a trade and there may not be a team willing to give up anything for him. But then it only takes one stupid GM. Look what Oakland gave up for Palmer, Washington for McNabb and so on. He may not look good on film but he has a resume that would hopefully get some attention.
     
    #34 Noam, Jan 31, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  15. Catt_County

    Catt_County Banned

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    This thread is silly. That Jets fans are even considering Peyton Manning says it all about Mark Sanchez' worth. He has none.

    If Sanchez was actually the QB that many Jets fans claim he is, nobody would even be thinking about Peyton.
     
  16. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    It's actually a ridiculous point. Brad says on one hand that Favre wasn't running Schotty's offense in the first place, so how did he escape Schotty and go to a great system? That makes no sense whatsoever. Plus the Jets were 8-3 and heading to a playoff win when Favre got hurt. Plus the 2009 Vikes were a much better all around team than the 2008 Jets. They had ten Pro Bowlers, and four All Pros, including Adrian Peterson. And, even with the Jets Favre had a Qb rating of 98, a number Sanchez has not even come close to sniffing. And, Favre had much worse ratings in 05 and 06, as well as 10 - he was inconsistent toward the end of his career. Implying that Schotty was the only variable is just shoddy and misleading analysis.

    Chad was Comeback Player of the Year in his first season with Schotty. How you get from that that Schotty failed in coaching Chad is beyond me.
     
  17. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Favre had a QB rating of 81.0 on the Jets.

    His collapse was concurrent with the injury and also with the Jets throwing a lot more passes in tight games. Whether that means Schotty ran to the passing game when the game was close as a habit or just how it broke that year I don't know.

    It's interesting, to say the least, that after Favre got hurt against DENVER that his passes suddenly went up and that just like Sanchez he threw 7 int's in the last 3 games of the season as the Jets were fighting for a playoff spot.

    It will be a long time before we can unwind the enigma that was Brian Schottenheimer, however I think it is pretty clear that he never had his finger on the pulse of his QB's and that he ran home to Air Coryell when things got rough and that his QB's failed to run that offense effectively for him.
     
  18. Organized Chaos

    Organized Chaos Well-Known Member

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    Most of them were good moves, and everyone you listed was a good QB in their own right. It just proves that a team isn't all just about the QB. Or at least it wasn't, maybe it is more-so today.

    I don't think we should ditch Mark. It would be nice if we could renegotiate his contract to something a bit more cap friendly, but whatever.
     
  19. Organized Chaos

    Organized Chaos Well-Known Member

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    Chad had some of his worst numbers as far as throwing ints under Shotty. It's amazing really, that Shotty took the most accurate QB in history and turned him into a QB with nearly a 1:1 int to td ratio in one season.

    Shotty sucks, his system sucked, it's good he is gone, and Mark will be better because of it.
     
  20. milcus

    milcus Well-Known Member

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    This. When people talk about Favre as thougn Favre was a mistake to justify not getting Manning, they look fucking retarded. Favre was freat for more than half the season. He only started to struggle after he got hurt and continued playing (whether that is his fault of Mangina's).

    But lets be clear. Had he not gotten hurt, the Jets were winning 11 games that year, his numbers would have been very good, and the Jets might have made a run in the playoffs.

    And even being hurt, it was still Schotty's fauly for relying on him way too much instead of focusing more on running the ball.
     

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