Yes, he did improve a bit his second year, but that's just normal progression of someone becoming more familiar with things, it had nothing to do with Gase. But he still didn't make much, if any, improvement in his footwork, and he was being constantly put under pressure - remember him "seeing ghosts"?. After that he was never the same, he began rushing his reads, bailing out of the pocket, locking onto his preferred receiver, and this year, with the same conditions, he's gotten worse. But Gase did nothing to help with any of that. He ignores Darnold when he comes off the filed, he calls plays that take time to develop, for a long time he wasn't even calling any roll outs...and his play calling is so predictable that they often find themselves in 3rd and long almost asking the defense to pin their ears back and come at Darnold. But frankly, at this point, I don't know how much the play calling can help him, given he's apparently still "seeing ghosts", and all of that. But all of that doesn't mean that Darnold sucked and will always suck. Where were all these QB "experts"" before he was drafted or afterwards? I will say that in the pre-draft analysis posts I myself raised issues about Sam's long-armed delivery and mechanics as well as his accuracy, but when he was drafted I hoped for the best. And initially he allayed my fears - he still had a long wind up to throw, but he cut down on the turnovers, especially the fumbles, and he made some pretty nice plays. But the terrible OL and marginal skill talent had an effect. Then he went from Bowles to Gase. And one other thing that nobody talks about but after 2018 he didn't have McCown to talk to, which, given the absolute lack of any other input (during games at least), really left Darnold on his own to figure things out. In hindsight I think this might be the biggest factor of all in his short-circuited development. Bottom line is that it's getting tiresome reading all these "Sam sucks!" threads and comments. It's just piling on.
Good break down. And yes, these are happening way too much. I think it gets back to him expecting to be pressured even when he isn't, and rushing his reads - or even not going through them. He's still young, and I believe he can be salvaged, but not by Gase and probably not while he's on the Jets.
I think we agree that Sam didn't always suck, and won't necessarily always suck. Same is true for Rosen. He does have Flacco to talk to now, who is a SB champ. He has improved OL. Gase is a problem, to be sure, but I feel that Sam also did not help himself. That is concerning, just like the fact that he declined in College a lot in his 3d year too. Let's see what happens for the rest of the year. He did pick up in the second half last year. If anything I want him to prove he still has value and either fetch is a decent pick or be at least a good back-up or maybe initial starter, like Fitzpatrick for Tua, if we do draft someone like Lawrence of Fields.
https://clutchpoints.com/nfl-draft-news-sam-darnold-wont-change-his-throwing-motion/ This is Sam pre-draft saying he thinks his throwing motion is fine and doesn't want to change it. Are we sure it's Gase's fault that it hasn't improved? You can tell a guy to do something all day long but ultimately it's up to him to change it.
The reality is that some guys have unorthodox throwing motions (or other actions in other sports) and succeed with it. In fact, if you forced them to do it "correctly" you would ruin any success they had, so forcing Sam to change his throwing motion would be a bad thing IMO. I agree that it contributes to his accuracy issues, and his ability to make completions in tight windows which are much tighter in the NFL than college, but he has also been successful with that motion. I don't think it's his biggest problem, and even if you tried to "fix" it, it would likely make him worse. I'm not going to do the research right now to make a list, but if you're at all knowledgeable about football and other sports you know dozens of examples of stars, many HOF'ers even, who had unorthodox mechanics. Darnold can succeed with his throwing motion, but he needs to fix his footwork, and most of all he needs to stop "seeing ghosts" and showing that he can go through his progressions and onto lock onto his primary receiver, and to correctly feel the pass rush, none of these will happen under Gase.
Notice how Levon Bell averaged 6.3 yards once he left this system? Remember how Robbie Anderson performed in this system? I'm not saying Sam will pan out or not, but at some point you have to consider how the the system and surrounding talent are impacting a players performance. Last night I watched Goff and Folk make many of the same errors we see Sam making. But they have enough talent around them and a better game plan to make up for these errors. Sam has no reasonable help, especially in game planning. I remember Sam was improving at the end of his rookie year and that ended once Gase got here.
This franchise is stupid. Mac was beyond horrible...how you spend a top three pick on a QB and refuse to invest in OL and receivers is beyond me Sam may or may not suck somwhere else, who knows? But I DO know that there is not a QB in this league who would do well with this coaching staff and this roster. He gets pressure right away, his receivers don’t get open, and seems like every receiver not named Crowder drops half the balls that hit them in their hands. it’s a shit show out there and it’s not just the QB
I laugh at this I have said Sam shares the blame so this statement is just either start an argument or to be contrary. My point is Sam damaged and has issues yes but the coach that damaged/failed him needs to go. I would not let gase anywhere near our next qb period end of story. And if they miss and end up picking 3rd what do you do? Take the best passrusher or olineman. Is there enough talent with Sam that if you protected him better and got him 2 more receivers and real tight end would be average and would that be good enough to win? At this point IDK who would want to play for Gase the way he has alienated players or misused them is well documented. The entire situation is a mess and it starts with coaching and goes from there
Why we haven’t fired Gase already is beyond me...I totally get that our coaching bench is pitiful. No doubt. Williams would be an option but he’s also kind of on the borderline and I can see the team not wanting him in charge. I can also guess at some fear that if they pass him over and elevate someone else like Loggains or Cooter, Williams is enough of an assholw that maybe their afraid he’d up and quit and then they’d have to replace the DC too. Who knows with this shitshow. however, From the outside, Gase seems like enough of an antisocial douche who alienates players that he has to go. The team is clearly not responding to him. that being said, it is interesting that despite how bad we are, we haven’t really heard much fingerprinting from the players...none of them are calling out the coaches or the other players yet, so maybe that’s something behind the scenes that we don’t see? Or maybe it’s only because we suck so bad on both sides of the ball so that there’s really no one to call out? I don’t know...I just want him out. He sucked at Miami and he’s sucked here. His offenses have been bottom of the barrel. He was a bad hire to begin with and everyday he’s still here is another day that means our owners may decide not to fire him...
His team is absolute garbage. They are always down and always passing to try to come from behind. He's benefitting from being on a team that has to pass all the time and has no other options.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...fl-hc-believes-jets-would-be-crazy-to-move-qb Wonder who the NFL head coach is Manish? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't have a bad attitude at all. I'm relaxed, I'm not going to get upset over debating things on a forum. Not crying, I like your subtle attempt at a solid rib though. Well done. Ha Jesus stop was a way to over exaggerate and highlight the fact that I thought your points were a bit out there to me. Not a big deal. I just don't agree with your points. Happens. I think you're mostly wrong. It happens. As far as telling someone to educate themselves. It wasn't meant to be mean. It was just my truth. If they were genuinely asking and looking for answers. I can respect that. That poster was not doing that. Instead, they want to assume and put out false information that could potentially convince someone else who doesn't know any better to be influenced In that way. Simply because someone didn't want to actually look something up but still wanted to drive home some biased point anyway. I think that's kinda reasonable. I certainly am not the one name calling because I can't handle a reasonable truth of another poster. Just saying. Now. Things actually worth talking about perhaps? You just gotta follow football, yeah? I see what ya did there. I'm obviously not a casual fan though. I appreciate the stats, your effort at putting together a reasonable statistical basis for your argument, all while ignoring all of my points It seems along the way. Kudos. However. Darnold has not been In the league nearly as long as, Tannehill. During their tenures with Gase. They both looked bad. They both have a very similar result while Gase has been the HC. Injuries have also been an issue for both QBs while under Gase. Even looking at the stats between the two. I see comparability there too. Again. I'm not saying Darnold looks good right now. I am saying he has looked very good for this team In the not so long ago past. He definitely isn't bad like you are trying to make it out to be. He definitely has talent. I think he is more talented than, Tannehill. Tannehill most certainly has had better talent around him as well. Darnold has been setup to fail. You're acting like Darnold alone should be enough. That even though he doesn't have good talent around him, he's been mentally fucked, he's forced to work within an awful scheme, he clearly has regressed from a coaching standpoint. Yet, none of that is relevant somehow? I'm curious, what QB would come to this team in It's current state and thrive? ..and why? Please, I'm an open minded guy. Change my mind?
I told you a truth. Your personal attacks and you being upset over nothing certainly lacks In maturity, no? ✌
No. It's not an invalid argument just because you want it to be. That's not how debates and points work. It's completely relevant and many people are elaborating on those facts. Regardless if you approve or not. We have the worst roster on offense I've ever seen as a fan. Ever. That actually computes for some of us. It's a thing. It matters. It doesn't matter If you think It does or doesn't. You have an opinion. You should. I and others just don't agree with It. Both are perfectly okay.
I don't need to attempt to change your mind because you're not open to changing your mind. Tannehill as a middle of the pack quarterback with Gase and the two years before Gase. He was solid on his second year and only got better. Darnold has gotten worse and has never been considered anything but a bottom 5 producer. He is awful in the pocket. His footwork is terrible, he feels the rush when it's not there and retreats out of clean pockets. He can't dissect a zone whatsoever and his pre-snap reads and protection calls (together with our center to be fair) are horrible. The only thing he does well is he makes a couple really good throws a game mostly on the run during broken plays. But carry on. You just wrote like six paragraphs to start that post that have nothing to do with football to defend your whining. It's silly. And for the record. Pretty much everyone who is down on Darnold has said how much the roster sucks around him but he should look better. The kid doesn't even know where his checkdowns are.
You made claims about me that also have nothing to do with football. I just responded to them. Look how cool you almost sounded right there though. It was almost cute. The reason you don't want to attempt to change my mind isn't because I'm the one that's "closed minded". No, that would be a foolish claim. Considering Ive clearly stated Darnold looks ruined. Bad. Really bad even. I'm not going to bat for Darnold In that way. I'm just not naive enough to think that Darnold Is THE problem. I'm not stupid enough to call a very talented kid straight trash, bust, etc... ... because I've seen the talent. I've seen how good he's looked. I've seen why so many people have gushed over him before Gase entered the picture. I can use my brain and think about how being In such a God awful situation like this fucking team Is.... How that could easily ruin an up and coming talent like, Darnold. I certainly like to play the odds, and If I'm honest, your stance is way more ludacris than mine based on the number of players that have gotten away from Gase. Then went on to actually look very good elsewhere. Yeah. I think I'm good on my reasoning on why I feel what I do. I'm not saying Darnold will go on to be good In this league. I can definitely see It happening though. I hope It does for him. If it does. I know my current stance on It doesn't make me look "silly". No, I think the reason you don't want to try and change my mind Is because you can't possibly believe that another QB could come to this situation and still look good. ..but, hey... No doubt though. Please. Carry on.
I've paid enough attention to know he makes poor decisions and is extremely turnover prone since he's been a QB at USC. Gase is a terrible hire and hasn't developed a semblance of an offense, probably wouldn't even be a decent high school football coach Both things can be true. Unless someone can remove Sam's brain and put someone else's in he will always be a poor decision maker who throws a ton of interceptions. That's what the EYE test and his TENDENCIES show me.
He's the worst rated starting QB in the league. Hardly has developed from his rookie season. I know the media loves to rag on the Jets but I don't think people are picking on him. He's just shown he's not very good
If you are at your job, and they keep putting you in situations that you are weak in, and you keep failing. That’s not enabling you to be successful. Pin a lot on Darnold for not growing, but when he trie too hard he tends to make dumb plays. He is like Fitzgerald, in hat way. But if he is allowed to get comfortable and get in rythym he is really exceptional. So that’s what as jets org you want him to be in. Next few games may be the place where we see it, we will finally be healthy at WR, and Becton healthy, he maybe be able to get some of the support that will enable him to get that rhythm going. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You present this as though Tannehill and Darnold were in the exact same situation, and Tannehill handled while Sam has not. That simply isn't the case, and you know that. Tannehill had better talent around him which makes a huge difference. Moreover, Tannehill was in the league longer, and was older. And to say he's "...never been considered anything but a bottom 5 producer" implies that he's been a QB for years, when in fact he's played less than 2 full seasons (accounting for injuries/illness). IOW, you're saying that's what he'll always be. To make that claim based on such little actual evidence, as well as not accounting for the mitigating factors he's had to deal with, is simply biased. You accuse myself and others who are trying to present a reasonable assessment of Darnold as "excuse makers for Darnold", as though name calling and labeling will suffice for actual proof of your opinion. But that's all it is, your opinion.. Despite whatever stats you trot out, they certainly don't tell the whole picture and you know that. If stats were all that mattered we shouldn't even bother playing the games! But there's much more that comes into play, and that's where it becomes hard to quantify. But just because poor talent level and shitty coaching can't be clearly measured, doesn't mean they don't have an impact. I realize that you won't change your mind, but nothing you've posted so far has changed mine. I still maintain that Darnold has above average talent. Where I've changed my opinion is that I don't believe he can ever play up to it (or beyond) with the Jets, certainly not with Gase. But I think the Jets owe him at least the chance to prove that he can be a FQB by firing Gase and getting him some talent, or by sending him to a team that can provide those things.
