Sam Darnold or ?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by LogeSection2RowJ, Aug 1, 2019.

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  1. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    this I have to disagree with. looking at the playoffs only and ignoring his regular season play (eli manning) and before i get into stats and such just a friendly reminder that without a david tyree helmet catch on a 4th down wing and a prayer and wes welker dropping a wide open pass to seal the game, eli would have 0 SBs but none the less

    2005 - lost 0-23 to the panthers. eli had 0 TDs and 3 INTs and 113 yards. he single-handedly cost them that game

    2007 - this was his SB win. now you claim he outplayed other QBs. lets take a look.
    vs TB wild card, yeah he outplayed jeff garcia. not anyting special
    vs Dal Div round, eli only threw 18 times for 163 yards in a 21-17 win. he did have 2 TDs and 0 INTs and romo didn't play well but it's hard to say a QB won the game throwing 18 times for 163 yards.
    vs GB NFC Champ, eli had 0 TDs 0 INTs in a 23-20 game. 251 yards (151 went to plaxico) favre didn't play well either. they both had a similar game niether outplayed the other. the main difference is the giants D shut down the packers run game (29 total rushing yards) while the giants ran for 130.
    vs NE SB, giants win 17-14 again eli and brady had similar performance. niether outplayed the other. giants D held NE to 14 points and 45 rushing yards

    So in short the 2007 run was mainly the defense holding some really good QBs in check and shutting down the run game and they won due to eli not making the big mistake, but he didn't outplay other QBs or win the game himself

    2008 - lost 11-23 to philly. 50% completions 169 yards 0TDs 2 INTs. single-handedly lost the game

    2011 - 2nd SB win
    vs ATL - giants D shut out ATL. giants won 24-2 with the 2 being an ATL safety obviously. eli did play a great game though but even without him anytime your defense pitches a shutout it's ahrd to give credit to the QB alone
    vs GB - eli outplayed rodgers here no doubt and deserves credit for this win
    vs SF - this one was pretty even performance wise for the QBs in a close game. they both threw 2TDs and 0 INTs eli threw for a little over 300 yards while smith was just shy of 200 yards but smith only threw 26 times to eli's 58 and was more efficient and had the higher QB rating. sitll i'd say this was jsut a good even battle for the QBs
    vs NE - this again i'd call it pretty even but it was much mor eimpressive for the giants D to shut down brady to play similar to eli

    2016 - vs GB. giants lose 13-38. eli played a solid game the defense let them down. rodgers lit up the giants D and way outplayed eli

    So overall the giants wins weren't because of eli, it was because of the defense and a few good breaks.

    EDIT:

    if you want a real good laugh. this is mark sanchez playoff stats vs eli playoff stats

    winning % tied (sanchez 4-2 eli 8-4)
    TDs per game tied (eli 18 in 12 games, mark 9 in 6 games)
    TD to INT ration - edge mark (mark 3-1, eli 2-1)
    completion % tied (mark 60.51 , eli 60.50)
    yards/gm - edge eli (mark 192.50 , eli 234.58)
    QB rating - edge mark ( mark 94.3, eli 87.4)
    4th Q comebacks - tied (both got half their wins as 4th quarter comebacks)

    basically the 2 of them stats in the playoffs are identical so i fail to see how eli was a great QB in the playoffs.

    if you want a really good laugh, peyton manning who everyone called a choke artist in the playoffs has the same career QB rating as eli in the playoffs.
     
    #141 GasedAndConfused, Aug 15, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  2. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    If you didn't see it that's not a failure just a lack of knowledge.

    2008 game it was blowing a gail in Giant stadium. McNabb had a 58 QB rating in that game. I believe that was the game right after Buress shot himself. Eli didn't lose that game. The conditions dictated that entire game. Very similar to the Jets loss to the Chiefs in 1969 when the conditions hampered Namath.

    I was at the SF Giant game in SF. Light rain all evening. The SF D pounded Eli to death. He never panicked and when they got the ball in position he calmly threw two td's. It wasn't close to an even performance. SF got the lead and Smith literally was bailing out the entire 2nd half. Eli on the other hand took a brutal beating maintained his cool and despite the pounding didn't put the ball on the turf and threw 2 critical TD's.

    The difference between Eli and Mark is Eli had 2 4 game runs in the playoffs. The Jets win at least one SB if Eli was the Jets QB instead of Mark probably 2 back to back.
     
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  3. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    um dude. I've watched every giants game and it's really not great to make things up that can be easily dis-proven.
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    maybe you should fact check before saying someone else lacks knowledge?
    no wind, no rain no nothing. weather was pretty dam nice for a January game at the meadowlands.
    so what if mcnabb had a bad game too? he still got 2 TDs and led them to 23 points and made more big throws and plays and less bad mistakes then eli. mcnabb still outplayed him
    yes it was the game after plax shot himself. It was also the season the giants had a ridiculous o-line and 2 1000 yard backs and 3 RBs over 5 YPC. they won with a great o-line, great run game, and defense that season. not eli and in the playoffs eli killed them.



    there are the highlights.
    giants bradshaw takes the opening kick off all the way back to the philly 40 but giants have to settle for 3
    giants D hold philly, giants get the ball back
    eli's terrible INT at his own endzone (1:03 mark) after that which gave philly an easy early lead (mcnabb 1 yard TD run)
    1:57 mark eli has an easy 50+ yard TD but overthrows the WR badly
    giants have to punt and a great punt pins philly inside the 5 where the giants D gets a sfaety making it now a 5-7 game
    end of 2nd quarter. giants D picks off mcnabb, giants get a FG out of it and take the lead 8-7
    mcnabb gets the ball wiht 1:20 left in the 2nd quarter after the kickoff. drives eagles downfield for a FG making it 10-8 eagles at the half
    3rd quarter eagles start with the ball and a dig return to midfield, giants D picks off mcnabb so eli starts at the phi 30 in FG range down by 2
    Eli can't do anything. the giants get closer with a few runs. settle for a FG to take an 11-10 lead and then don't score another point for the rest of the game (27.5 mins)
    eagles go on to win 23-11

    meanwhile after that this is what mcnabb did down 11-10 early in the 3rd
    3rd and 20 inside his own 10, scrambles and completes a pass for a 1st down, 2nd and 7 completes a pas over the middle for 15 yards, 3rd and 10, completes a 20 yard pass, settles for a FG and a 13-11 lead they never lost

    I'd suggest watching that video to refresh your memory of that game and doing that prior to calling someone else wrong lol
     
  4. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Seems like you found the one point in the game where there wasn't any wind. But overall, there were sustained winds of 20 mph in the stadium with gusts that would have been higher. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200901110nyg.htm So a fact check reveals you didn't watch the game well enough.

    Game Info

    Game Info
    Won Toss
    Giants
    Roof outdoors
    Surface fieldturf
    Weather 30 degrees relative humidity 55%, wind 20 mph, wind chill 17
    Vegas Line New York Giants -4.0
    Over/Under 39.0 (under)
     
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  5. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Arguing about the past is way more fun than arguing about the future.

    :p
     
  6. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    Boom, head shot
     
  7. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    the weather forcast compared to what the video shows are 2 different things. weather forecasts aren't always accurate and even when they are, obviously there isn't 20+ MPH wind on every play. again watch the video and look at the description of the game eli played. it was awful. mcnabb made a couple of mistakes but overall played a much better game. mcnabb also had 0 run game. the giants shut it down (under 45 yards IIRC) while all the giants bets plays were big runs.
     
  8. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    here is every FG attempt made in the video so you don't think 1 is cherry picked. they are all time stamped in the video and in the game clock as well to look for yourself. Is this board really to the point of denying video evidence?

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    WTF? screenshots from a Giants football game from over 10 years ago... this place is a zoo
     
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  10. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Admit you're wrong and move on.
     
  11. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Hey G&C...

    You got any video from Epstein's cell?

    Now that would be handy...
     
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  12. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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  13. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    it's a zoo because it's so bad people will deny video evidence so they can feel they are "right" on a message board with a bunch of strangers on the internet. Really people just look sad when doing that. You have people here defending a giants QB poor performance in a game 10 years ago and blaming it on nonexistent weather elements. it doesn't get more sad or insane then that
     
  14. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    does it really matter though if it was windy or not in a Giants football game over 10 years ago?
     
  15. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    of course not. none of it matters. you are expected to perform. eli was horrible and cost them the game. someone tried to say it wasn't his fault it was too windy so mcnabb sucked too. yet there are the highlights and as far as a game in the meadowlands in january, you couldn't have asked for better weather.

    The whole point though was people were regarding eli as some great QB in the playoffs and yet none of that was true. he was worse the sanchez in the playoffs, and equal to peyton who everyone called a choke artist in the playoffs. perception can be a bitch, getting someone to realize that is even worse
     
  16. twown

    twown Well-Known Member

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    I'm seriously in awe of this whole back-and-forth.
     
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  17. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    Eli was spectacular in 2 playoff drives to a SB without a home game. Comparing him to Sanchez is a joke.

    The 2008 Giants were perhaps the best Giant team that didn't win a SB. If you remember that season and I do the Giants were 10 and 1 and obviously real good when Plaxico shot himself. They lost 4 of the next 6 including the Eagles game. The O was bad down the stretch. I really think you put way to much blame on Eli and way to little on the impact Plaxico shooting himself had on that team. It wasn't close to good conditions for either QB and the numbers reflected it on both sides.

    I'm not a big Eli fan and I don't want to defend him. The fact is he was magnificent under pressure in two runs to a SB. He is the longest tenured NY Giant player ever. He is probably a mortal lock for the HOF. He has been wildly inconsistent and at times an INT machine. He has also thrown some of the most beautiful passes under pressure you will ever see. We had a guy a lot like that in the mid 60's.
     
  18. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    Every time I read “plaxico shot himself” it just makes me laugh.
    Never gets old
     
  19. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    even shanchez had some amazing drives and comebacks too. the great ones win games for their team. eli and sanchez both "didn't lose" games. they sure as hell didn't win them though. they won with a good defense, limited mistakes, and a good run game. Eli's SB wins aren't even close to even say nick foles who in the SB played better then eli ever has and in that whole playoff run really was a better one then eli ever put together. Hell even the last SB the pats won on defense not because of brady. You also ignored a large majority of the info just to say sanchez sucks. i mean we all know that, that wasn't the point and obviously eli is better overall then sanchez the point was eli wasn't some amazing QB in the playoffs.

    and yes i do remember that season. as i said i've watched every jet and giant game for over the past 30 years. and will continue to do so out of habit. my brother is a giants fan too. if there is any team i know well in the NFL outside of the jets, it's the giants. That season the giants D was great, their o-line was amazing and with a trio of mediocre RBs nobody could stop their run game. Plax was the x-factor to make up for eli and his poor throws as well. him shooting himself was a huge blow to the team and made them 1 dimensional. hell the fact you even have to worry about plax not being there shows it wasn't eli. it was the team. the 2008 giants were a better team then the 2009 and 2010 jets with a better QB too. hell they were a better team then their 2 SB winning years. eli was the issue with the team and the reason they didn't win a SB that year. He's never been magnificent under pressure. heaving up a prayer and getting lucky =/= magnificent. mcnabb was way better under pressure then eli that game. U think the pass to tyree was beautiful lol. sanchez has made some beautiful passes too under pressure. as every NFL QB at 1 point has.
     
  20. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    the real crime was wearing sweatpants to a nightclub
     
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