arms not as live as i would have liked. not sure he would cut it here in november/december. didn't hate what i saw though
He definitely has limitations, he makes up for some of it with anticipating his receiver being open. That however will only get you so far. Made some good throws under pressure. I would say probably 3rd round for the Jets if interested.
Why does it always have to be about "next year's" draft class? That whole wait and lets tank for next year's all world draft class is and was always bullsh*t. My comment was really more about that than Mahomes. I'm going to give you a pass on the bold as I know you are better than this. A good talent evaluator looks beyond system. I professed throughout the pre-draft process that Mahomes because of his feet, anticipation and timing would be ideal for the WCO. It's not a coincident that the current king of the WCO traded up to get him. It's classic Jets luck and/or incompetence that we pass on this kid they year it appear that we may have found ourselves a competent OC, who runs, of course, the WCO. Our recent history of missing the opportunity to match QB prospect with ideal scheme continues. I've wrote about this in the past, Mark Sanchez ran the WCO his entire life prior to the Jets. The one time we hire a WCO OC Mornhinweg, he blows his shoulder in a meaningless preseason game. Geno would have been a good fit for Gailey's Spread based system but he gets his jaw broken over what amounts to pennies. Currently, Hack/Petty and the WCO are a horrible fit. And just for good measure, Josh Rosen, the clear best prospect so far, is on record as not being a fan of the WCO.
I go back to my Ryan Fitzpatrick comp, specifically the bold below. Sam Darnold 2017 Games Discussion Thread Post by: legler82, Sep 11, 2017 in forum: Draft
My bad if I misinterpreted your thoughts. To me, it's not about next year it's simply about opportunity and choosing the right prospect. I'm picky as shit man. I was trying to have some fun at your expense a little bit. A good talent evaluator does look beyond the system no doubt, but you have to have your fundamentals established in some sort of way. I just didn't think Mahomes was that type of guy. I cannot deny his playmaking ability and amazing arm. Perhaps if we had an actual plan for Mahomes, I would've been on board. However, this franchise is a dumpster fire. Would you have trusted Morton with Mahomes? Jets need a QB that transcends the system, or becomes the centralized part of the system himself. That doesn't mean that QB shouldn't know pro style concepts while he's green, because it counts for a lot. I don't think the Jets necessarily play a true WCO, but no doubt I think Rosen would become the system himself. That dude is too stubborn and too smart to adjust without his say.
I think Mahomes would/will take a special coach in order to refine him for the pros. There's no doubt that he has amazing arm talent. I trust Mahomes to become a good to great player under Andy Reid and after sitting a year or so. Not so sure I'd trust him coming here and getting tossed to the wolves immediately like the fan base would've called for and the coaching staff would've given in to. Also, the lack of success of air raid quarterbacks can't be ignored. How many former air raid passers are there in the NFL that have found success? Even if they find early success they often fizzle out once the defenses figure them out and become too complex for the player to deal with. See Griffin III, Robert.
This "Mahomes wouldn't have succeeded with our coaching staff/system" might have some truth to it, but that said, then ANY QB coming here is going to have major problems succeeding. So what's the answer, don't draft any QBs? And given how little Bowles has listened to the fans screaming for Petty, I highly doubt he would've given in and played Mahomes. But if he did, I believe Mahomes would've found some success given his amazing arm and his ability to make something out of nothing. In any case, I fully agree with legler: Waiting for next year's 'Can't miss prospect', is a crap shoot at best. And while Rosen might well be worth the wait, there's sure no guarantee we'll get him. "A bird in hand is worth two in the bush".
There's certain quarterbacks that need a lot more refining to their game than others. Specifically ones that come from one read college systems and someone like Mahomes that has poor footwork and mechanics but an absolute cannon of an arm. Go back and watch Mahomes college highlight tapes. The throws are absolutely incredible. He throws frozen ropes fading away off his back foot. But he won't get away with that in the pros. Basically any prospect that goes to an Andy Reid coached team will find success. Some quarterbacks don't need to work on the fundamentals as much. It's not as much that we can't draft any because we won't develop them. But we need more pro ready passers than a team with a coach that's main focus is offense. Bowles is different than Rex. But would you trust Rex to develop a quarterback like Mahomes? Or would you want to get him the most fundamentally pro-ready passer as possible, knowing that he will not have much influence on refining that passers game?
Pocket awareness and athleticism is off the charts at 1:37 mark Not his best game but still overall impressed with pocket presence, feeling the pressure, elusiveness, and ability to throw the ball away when needed. Some poor decisions too which I need to see him sure up
Good analysis/assessment of Darnold: https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/03/sam-darnold-usc-quarterback-2018-draft-washington-state-loss I'm betting that he stays in school.
Howdy and my pleasure mi amigo: Pre-Washington State game (my previous quotes in this thread, again, pre-Wash): - SC's lost 11 starters from the 2016 Rose Bowl team (including both All-American OT). - mentioned months ago about the overall OL graduation turnover - ^ this "11 starters lost" was ignored and I said that I thought the 2017 USC team 'has been "very over-hyped" (much like the pre-2017 LSU hype). Post-Washington State game: - Darnold was mediocre bordering on lousy. But did he play a "bad" game? By his standards yes. - Even in the midst of the loss, he (with his "sloow" windup-smh-roll eyes) he had a few throws to mostly covered receivers that were impressive, most notably that strike he fired to Diontay Burnett on a post. Burnett btw was playing dinged up. - The two replacement OT's were injured and one replacement was a frosh who never played a down before. - USC overall is a dinged-up team. - Darnold's footwork (mobility in the pocket) is just fine. - Darnold speed passing to his backs (on the run and hitting them in stride) is 2nd to none (as well as his hitch and bubble screens). - USC lost by 3 points yet Darnold engineered a game-tying drive late in the 4th quarter that included a clutch 4th and 13 conversion with two guys in his face with a pass that was perfectly placed where only his covered receiver could catch it (threw him open). USC''s gassed 'D' then allowed WSU to march down for a FG. The Darnold fumble that followed? Admittedly, bad ball security from Darnold who looked like he was trying to get away with a fake incomplete pass...and at the same time, blitzer came straight up the middle untouched: RB missing a pickup anyone?..just saying.. - BIGGY HERE: OC Tee Martin's play calling (esp. with the shot OL) was atrocious. Even with a dinged-up OL, should've run more esp. against an undersized DL instead of having to depend on these dinged-up newbies pass blocking. Last year: Darnold took over a 1-3 team and led them on a 9 game win streak and Rose Bowl over this year's current #4 team (Penn St.) that has their QB Mc Sorley as well as the best college player in RB Shaquan Barkley. Translation: Darnold makes people around him better. This year: let this over-hyped (talent-wise) USC get healthier and then see what happens before the "I hope he falls on his face" fanboys close the scouting report on this guy. We win Sunday vs. the Browns we can forget the Darnold/Rosen sweepstakes anyway (esp. if Kizer doesn't pan out for them...got pulled last week btw) which would be a shame considering the QB/LT 1&2 rd. pairings that could be had in this draft. Cute but no thanks. Poor man's Drew Bledsoe: holds the ball too long at times (takes needless sacks); arm not Drew Bledsoe/NFL elite. Brw, I'm sure you're aware that Falk was already benched earlier this year for a portion of the Boise St. game? I''m sure... Well, such a "30 minute-full and comprehensive assessment" will net you a Hackenberg. Alex Smith should be killing it the way Mahomes has been holding a clipboard thus far. Clipboard Canton. They want to go full-fanboy, fine. (@Br4d) But hi-jacking a 2018 prospect thread with with the irrelevant man/boy love for Kansas City's draft pick from last year (both here and in several other threads) is out of place, let alone pure premature b.s.....that is unless they want to critique Mahomes' own abortion of a game against an even lesser Iowa State team with as much derivsive fervor as they are with Darnold-Wash. St.. goose = gander.
Still a lot of season left, but unless he starts looking a lot better in a few different areas I think he's going back to school. I mean, he's only a sophomore.
^ ^ ^ Sorry for the out of whack in bold above but I'm on vacation and trying to type this on a phone outdoors....but I digress: not jumping ship on the Ginger Assassin (like that one mahomes fanboys?) after one blah game
The purpose of "rehashing" last year's draft is in the spirit of "Those who refuse to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it". And before calling anyone else a "fan-boy", take a look in the mirror. Your loving testimony to Darnold might better be placed in the "Weddings & Engagements" thread.
Any smart team that can get a true FQB would adopt whatever system that QB works best in, and not try to fit a square peg into a round hole, as the Jets have done before. Would they adopt this common sense approach if they can get a Rosen or whoever the best QB available is? IDK, but I would hope so. If they don't I would be officially done with this team. And yes, Rosen SHOULD become the system. Any potential great athlete has to have unshakable belief in their own ability, call that "stubborn", but it's part of every player in the HOF.
Rosen has got the smarts surely to be that kind of QB. I can't say the same for our prospects in the past like Geno Smith or Mark Sanchez who were married to 1 system and couldn't adopt. Heck our coaches couldn't either.
