Roster Moves

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NCJetsfan, May 5, 2021.

  1. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Nice post.

    If you look at the FA signings JD mainly signed young guys. With the exception of Moses and Curry at premium positions. If you look at what JD did on day 3 of the draft he took a flier on a lot of very athletic high upside players. The idea this year is to get those players reps not only as starters but practice reps. Signing a veteran CB would not only cost a roster spot but lower everyone's reps. This is an evaluation year where this years draft class and last will hopefully get enough reps in games snd practice where the FO can see who is likely to be part of the future.

    It is highly likely a lot if not most of these day 3 picks will be gone next year. But, if we can hit on 2 or 3 few Bryce Hall type starters that is huge. From all indications they seem to really like Pinnock, Dunn and Carter.

    The money we save on not signing more vets allows the FO to fill in more holes next year.
     
  2. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    JD did sign a bunch of vets this offseason! Most are younger, but Curry and Moses and maybe some others are older. I'm certain that if there had been a young CB with potential who wasn't too expensive, JD would have tried to sign him. In fact, I think he did try to sign one or two, but the bidding got too high and they signed with other teams.

    Obviously, JD and Saleh discussed things and Saleh was perfectly in agreement with using the early picks on offense and adding DBs late that he and his CS could coach up and develop. I'm equally certain that JD's goal is to probably draft every starter on the team and just use FA for depth and perhaps STs, and maybe an occasional short-term starter.

    Whereas we had cap space to sign more FAs this year, JD wisely waited until he saw who we got in the draft, and once he added a bunch of younger prospects, it was important to give them a chance. What's the point of drafting young players and then signing older vets who will take up most of the reps, and then the young players don't get much of a chance to develop and win a spot. That's just wasting draft capital and cap space.
     
    #262 NCJetsfan, Jul 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
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  3. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    If it were a position that we have depth I can see the reasoning. We dont need to sign another vet DL, or WR. But we are thin at DB, with little proven talent, so there is a good reason to have another proven vet on that squad. Suggesting competing with a vet will effect rookie development in a meaningful way is a big stretch. The same logic has been put forth for the QB position. Poole signed a one year contract so that wouldn't have affected next years cap. There is no reason to go into this season purposely shallow at DB and QB.
     
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  4. Imagesrdecieving

    Imagesrdecieving Well-Known Member

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    This may be a position that winds up being addressed with camp cuts IF Saleh/JD aren't happy with the youngsters progression leading up to after preseason.

    Might wind up costing the team a few wins but they seem confident enough in their plan. We'll see how it plays out.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
  5. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Poole at age 29 had no place on this team. Signing Poole would have meant cutting either Michael Carter or Guidry who they both value higher and then reducing the reps of the development of the player not cut.

    CB is not a premium position in this defense. We can use DBs with a lower skilkset. Hall looks to be a player and has locked down CB1. He got rave reviews in OTAs and hopefully he will make that jump.

    CB2 has many promising players. JD took a bunch of shots at high reward players. They really like Dunne and Pinnock. Bless might improve in a zone corner scheme. They also have echols, campbell, and Jackson competing for a spot. They are hoping one of Dunn, Pinnock or Bless steps up. Adding a veteran CB not only takes away game and practice reps from everyonebut it means one of Dunn, Pinnock or Bless likely gets cut. Not to mention then there is less money in the cap next year to spend.

    Spending money on veterans who will not be here makes no sense. It takes a roster spot, reduces reps and takes money from the future. There are exceptions where it is a clear upgrade to a premium position like Moses. But CB is not a premium position in this defense and they seem very happy with Hall, very happy with the 2 slot CBs and excited that Dunn, Pinnock, Bless or someone else can step up and develop into a quality CB2.
     
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  6. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    Well it’s a risk for sure…”hoping” one or two of the kids develops is not really a strategy right? It’s a hope. Betting on day 3 picks to develop into solid starters is a risky bet. Yes it can happen…Richard Sherman was a 5th rounder right? So it’s not out of the realm of possibility, and we’re going with numbers here. Coaches have seen them up close and know what they want in a player, so we have to trust that they know what they’re doing, but I would have had no problem in signing one vet to add to the room. It would have hedged our bets a little bit.

    but here we are, and looks like we’ll roll with the kids….I get it, but it’s not a slam dunk…we’ll see.

    I don’t have a HUGE issue with it in this rebuilding year, but personally I would’ve been happy with having someone like Poole or Nelson on the team this year to help the secondary…
     
  7. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Unless it is a minimum contract it does effect next years cap. All money not spent this year gets rolled over and added to next years cap. This is one of the big reasons we had so much cap room this year as JD rolled over a lot from last year and appears to be doing the same this year. I am not saying you don't know know how the rollover system works but your seeming lack of knowledge about how the cap system works might go a long ways to explaining many of your posts.
     
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  8. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    Really? In fact, were not rolling over money for next season by not signing Poole. Were rolling it over from 2 years ago. In that sense your suggesting, "why fill holes this season when we can fill them next season". Or more to the point, "why fill holes in 2020 when we can fill them in 2022".

    The reality is JD has signed 11 FAs to one year deals this offseason while dumping nearly everyone that was finishing their rookie contracts. He has also prevented some of our better players from getting the money they wanted this year. He has hardlined our cap at every turn. Yet its somehow a good thing we didn't give a 1 year deal to another quality CB.

    If you think the money saved on another CB could be better spent elsewhere, that's fine. But don't act like continually going into the season with a lot of money in the bank and holes in your roster is some form of cap wizardry. I'm going to assume JD is still going to get us another CB and QB while he can - for the 2021 season.
     
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  9. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    It is probably the worst CB room in the NFL.

    Hopefully Saleh & Ulrich can coach them up because the guys you mention are largely bums, lets be honest. Hall has "locked up CB1" which may or may not be true but if it is, is there a worse CB1 in the league? I doubt it
     
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  10. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Besides the cap savings Poole at age 29 has no place on this team. Signing Poole would have meant cutting either Michael Carter or Guidry who they both value higher and then reducing the reps of the development of the player not cut.

    The FO is very happy with Bryce Hall at CB1, they are very happy with Guidry and Carter as the slot corners. CB2 is in flux. They are excited about the potential of Pinnock, Bless and Dunne and hope that with extended reps in games and practice that one can step up and be a solid CB2 in 2022. Signing a veteran CB that will not be part of the teams future likely means cutting one of these 3 promising players.

    Young players with high upside need two things reps and luck. We are giving them all reps and hoping that one of these high upside athletic players will step up. Essentially the FO is playing a numbers game. Buy enough lottery ticket players, give them reps, give them good coaching, put them in a friendly system for DBs and hope 1 or 2 steps up. It is a numbers game the more tickets we have the better chance we win. This is what 2021 is about. Giving young players reps, coaching them up, see who steps up and then reassess in 202w with the extra money we saved we then try to fill holes in FA.
     
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  11. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    We would cut whoever deserves to be cut based on their performance.

    Just singing a vet doesn't automatically mean Pinnock, Bless, or Dunn have to go. But it does mean if one or more of them don't pan out, and needs to be cut, we will still have some depth. This is all leading back to making an excuse every time we question one of JDs moves. The proof is going to be in the pudding this season.
     
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  12. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    It is a numbers game. Signing a short term veteran cb who is not part of our future means we would have to keep more than 7 CBs to keep Bless, Dunn and Pinnock. All 3 are developing players who they really like but need reps. It is really questionable if any of the 3 would pass through waivers. Bart Scott said it best the other day that this defense is really deep in talent and that there will be a lot of really good defensive players cut. He said the Jets have not been this deep in awhile and that the competition just to make the roster will be fierce.

    There are some really interesting ways to look at the final roster and how they will try to figure out how to squeeze out spots. Cuts are going to be really painful. We might finally have a team where other teams are paying attention to our cuts.

    Not to mention the FO did make a huge investment in their DBs by signing players who can rush the passer in Lawson, Rankins, Curry and Blair. Making a statement that the best way to help the DBs get better is to invest in the DL.
     
    #272 Noam, Jul 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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  13. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    Blake Bortles just became available, and should come cheap. Its not the best solution but its better then nothing.
     
  14. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    With regards to the bold, perhaps not, but it makes it more likely that one or more of them will go because all of them will receive less reps, less attention from their position coach, and less opportunities to learn and prove themselves, thus their short-term performance is likely to be worse than a vet's. In the short term, the vet can be better, but by mid-season or the end of the season, the young player can be the better of the two. Long term you want to keep the better of the two players. That's why it makes no sense to bring in a vet that you're only going to keep for 1 year when you have young prospects with a lot of talent/athleticism/potential who can be better than the vet and help you long term, or at least for a longer period of time than 1 season.
     
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  15. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Yep, That "ah shit" moment when you hear Blake Bortles is a free agent.
     
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  16. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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  17. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    He was the boss at theory.
     
  18. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    Kizer should've taken his advice
     
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  19. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    We've brought in DE Jeremiah Valoaga. Maybe to fill in for Curry? We'll see if he survives the cuts.
     
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  20. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Jeremiah Isaiah Valoaga is an American football defensive end for the New York Jets of the National Football League. He played college football at UNLV, and was signed by the Detroit Lions as an undrafted free agent in 2017. Wikipedia
    Born: November 15, 1994 (age 26 years), Oxnard, CA
    Weight: 245 lbs

    The Jets continued adding to their defensive line Tuesday.

    Gang Green signed former 49ers defensive end Jeremiah Valoaga, according to SNY’s Ralph Vacchiano. Valoaga last played in 2019 after opting out of the 2020 season. He played in four games for Robert Saleh’s defensive unit from Weeks 13-16, tallying two tackles and one pass breakup in 44 snaps.

    Valoaga was a member of the Raiders when he opted out last season.

    The 6-foot-6, 275-pound defender began his NFL career as an undrafted free agent for the Lions in 2017. He recorded five tackles, five quarterback hits and one sack in nine games.

    Valoaga now joins a crowded defensive line group filled with talent. He will have a chance to carve out a role in training camp, but he looks more like a practice squad possibility for the Jets.

    *****

    OK, so he's a former Niner. I don't really understand the point of bringing him in, even with Curry out. That would just have been more reps for Huff, Zuniga, Blair, JFM, and Phillips to better learn the D and prove themselves.
     

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