Report: Multiple teams offering trades for Quinnen Williams

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by ouchy, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it makes sense. You may be right about Q's talent. I was suspicious of his being a one-year wonder at Alabama. I think in the right defense, and with some other very good players around him, he could become a very good player, but perhaps not. Maybe it's just hopes that one of Mac's picks will last and be a great player for the Jets.

    I encourage you to post more. I liked your post and writing style, even if I disagreed with your conclusion, and hey, you could be right. Trading him might be the smart thing to do.
     
  2. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    The Jets have a roster full of filler players plus a few genuinely good prospects at this point.

    They could draft insanely well between now and 2022 and still only get up to an 8-8 talent base.

    Think 1977 Jets as the talent level at this point. They've just gotten rid of the loud star (Adams vs Riggins). They have a young QB who is theoretically very good but he is both injury-prone and turnover-prone (Darnold vs Todd). They've maybe drafted a good receiver to go along with him (Mims vs Walker). They've got a few valuable pieces on defense (QWilliams, Maye vs Buttle and Salaam) however the mix is not good at this point and they are missing both a good CB and a good edge rusher in the mix.

    There's no miracle in the offing here. Unless Joe Douglas drafts insanely well the Jets are going to be bad again in 2021 and then a mediocre possible surprise contender in 2022. Assuming Douglas can get the job done the Jets are going to be actually good along about 2024. Maybe 2023 with a lot of luck.

    Now, several times over the last two decades the Jets have signed the equivalent in 2020 dollars of $100M worth of free agents and loaded towards a given year. That effort has mostly been in vain however the Jets have gotten a decent team or two out of it for a year or two at the outside. However the teams that tried to do this were marginal contenders that were trying to ramp up to real status. The exception being the 2015 Jets. Only one of the teams that did this, the 2007-2008 Jets actually become a short-term contender a year or two down the road.

    Signing $100M of free agents next year wouldn't make the Jets a contender. It might turn a 4-12 team into an 8-8 team. In the process it would undoubtedly set back the build, because we'd have 27 and 28 year old players coming into the building instead of developing 22 and 23 year old players in those positions. Every big free agent we hired in this way would be a pure mercenary in it for the dollars and not the wins - because why would anybody else sign a big contract with the Jets at this point given the reality of the situation here?

    The best option for everybody involved is to just let Joe Douglas do the job he was hired to do: build the Jets into a competitive organization. We're probably not going to like the product on the field for the next few years but there's nothing we can do to effectively change that reality. There's no quick fix for the roster totally sucks due to years of bad drafting and wasteful free agent spending.

    If you're willing to watch the Jets build then being a Jets fan is a reasonable option.

    If you're not you really should find another team because the Jets are either going to be rebuilding for the next few years or they are going to be an 8-8 team that then collapses back into a fetal position when the free agents age out. This assuming the free agents didn't just sit back and enjoy the paycheck and go 4-12 despite the spending surge.

    Next up: why the Jets resemble Iraq in 2007 and where did that get us in the end?
     
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  3. Cman65

    Cman65 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    Rebuilding the rebuild after the teardown. Rinse and repeat.
     
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  4. Jets81

    Jets81 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t expect a competitive Jets team until 2022, and by competitive I mean capable of scoring points and staying in some games, not competing for the division. If it’s going very well, outside shot at a playoff birth. I expect to be competing for a division title by 2023. That’ll be 4 Douglas drafts, a new HC (I assume) and a free agent splurge somewhere in there.

    People will be calling for Douglases job way before any of that. Some think he’s awful now, and they’ll pile on when the team sucks again next season. I’ll be among them if we don’t have a new HC for 2021. He’s shaping the franchise and needs to be capable of influencing the Johnsons where the HC position is concerned. If he can’t do that, or worse, he believes in Adam Gase, we’re fucked.
     
  5. ConcordeChops

    ConcordeChops 2018 International Poster Award Winner

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    ‘77 is a good comparison given the roster churn required. It does mean that an impatient and frustrated fan base has to wait until 2024-25 for us to be competitive again.
     
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  6. Cman65

    Cman65 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    Sure it does...
     
  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Good assessment. This is what should be reasonably expected. But things don't always go as planned...sometimes they actually go better, but oftne they don't work out as well as hoped for. We'll see. I'm going to try and stay patient...for now...because I still think Douglas has a "blueprint" and he's going to stick to that which is something I've been saying for years that the Jets needed, so I'm curious to see if A. this is true, and B. if it works out. That said, if Gase is part of that "blueprint" I won't have any faith in Douglas or his vision at all and will be done.
     
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  8. Leicester Jet

    Leicester Jet Well-Known Member

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    If the salary cap dips next year as far as many are expecting, because of the lack of crowds, etc, there will be lots of relatively cheap free agents on the market.

    We appear to be much better off in cap terms than a lot of teams, so lets hope JD can use this to our advantage.
     
  9. RedRoute1

    RedRoute1 Member

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    Thanks very much, very nice of you to say! This whole thing is crazy and I have no idea what's going to happen...I was 50% in when they hired Idzik (right plan / wrong skill set but I was hopeful), probably 70% in when they hired Mac (right plan originally then panicked / scouting background if not leadership background, I was hopeful) but am 100% in with JD due to all of the accolades he gets from every current football/former football person we hear from. If this doesn't work I'm thinking we'll have to wait for the Johnson's to sell...that's so disheartening. I'm from MA originally and am a diehard Sox fan and you can imagine the hell I get from all my friends who are Pats fans...I remember after the 2003 series loss to NYY telling a friend that it looked like we'd just have to wait out Jeter/Posada/Rivera/Williams etc...Then in sobering fashion my friend said they've been saying that since Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle...That was depressing and that's about where I am now w/ the Jets!

    On the other hand, I got to see what smart ownership can do to change everything. The Sox were always acquiring the wrong pieces, RH home run hitters because of the wall instead of high end pitching. They were run by a trust for a very long time that had no idea/no passion about baseball and thus the Sox never won big but won just enough to keep the interest...When John Henry took over, a self-made billionaire who used analytics to direct his hedge fund to make his fortune, Sox finally had a smart business man who was also a diehard baseball fan (St. Louis Cards fan as a kid). He not only understood how to run an enterprise but knew enough about business to hire and empower the right people starting w/ Epstein et. al...4 WS later, from a franchise that was viewed as "cursed", smart business decisions won out. I think w/ the Johnsons we do have passionate owners that truly care but don't have any business sense on how to run an enterprise whether that's at J&J or certainly with the Jets. I've come to know one higher up at J&J through work and he's referred to the Johnson's as "just heirs to the fortune" and "inconsenquential to the business"...That completes the picture and shows you why Woody wanted to get that Ambassador position, he's got nothing going on at J&J and is searching for relevance and bought his way into that position as a political donor/supporter. Leading back to the fact that these guys just have absolutely no clue about leadership, business processes and have literally zero transferrable leadership skills that they're bringing from J&J to the NFL because they had no skills at J&J to begin with.

    So....using the "even a broken clock" analogy, I'm all in that this is one of the two times per day that we've found our football leader in JD. Gase is horrible but hopefully his legacy for this team is that he led us to rock bottom and to JD who eventually rebuilt the franchise. If that means suffering through a few more tough seasons, I'm ok w/ that...But if it doesn't work out I think it may not ever work out under these owners.
     
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  10. 94Abraham

    94Abraham Well-Known Member

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    I dont agree with that. You see teams that go from awful to being competitive the next year with one offseason and a good free agency all the time. With an excellent draft and Douglas using the cap room to fill holes, this team can certainly be competitive. It all come down to if this current rookie class improves as the year goes on and if the next draft makes an immediate impact. I dont think the fan base can hold their sanity if this team is not competitive and seeing a repeat of this year.
     
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  11. K'OB

    K'OB Well-Known Member

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    Why?

    We are supposedly rebuilding, you don't rebuild with expensive free agents, maybe if and when we are nearly there you bring in the finishing pieces to go for gold.

    Adding then next year will likely lead us to 8-8 mediocrity a place we all know very well. I'd rather we just went and rebuilt from the bottom up and do it right this time, be that another 5 year wait, I'll take that if we can transform this franchise in to perennial challengers for 10 or so years.
     
    #131 K'OB, Oct 17, 2020 at 2:03 PM
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020 at 5:06 AM
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  12. Jets81

    Jets81 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you’re right. Jets look almost completely devoid of talent to me at this point, though. As in, almost all of the offensive skill positions could turnover this offseason, and it doesn’t mean they’ll be massive upgrades. New coach, new system. I dunno man. I’d be shocked if they were competing for a playoff spot next season but hey, thats why they play the games.
     
    #132 Jets81, Oct 17, 2020 at 2:24 PM
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020 at 5:34 PM
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  13. HerndonFan

    HerndonFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    The team needs to show progress year to year. It might take time to upgrade the skill positions, but we could easily have 2 new WR's, 1 new RB, 1 new TE, and a new QB next year. It's not out of the question to see the offense start off slowly in 2021 as the new pieces develop chemistry with the QB, but improves over the season and it leads to greater things in 2022.
     
  14. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    this is one of my pet peeves on our coaches...we never seem to tailor our schemes to fit our talents....Q would probably be better as a three technique in a 4-3, but we play a 3-4 more often than not. And then we try to run a 3-4 but never draft OLB pass rushers.

    it’s been our MO since the sack exchange days....that’s the last time I can think of, outside of maybe a couple of years under Parcells, where we actually had the right players in the right scheme...Klecko and Gastineau were very good edge rushers and Salaam and Lyons were banger DTs in the middle...
     
  15. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a reasonable timetable to see these types of results, and if we don’t, then it will mean JD fucked up and is not the guy. Again.

    there are simply too many high draft picks and too much cap space for this outcome not to come to fruition
     
  16. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree. That's one reason I've always hated the 3-4 D alignment. It's been so hard to find 3-4 OLBs who can rush the passer. 4-3 DEs can have a hard time adjusting to standing up and having to cover receivers. They usually take a year or two to develop. Few colleges have traditionally played a 3-4 D alignment. That is changing, but there still hasn't been an abundance of 3-4 OLBs who can rush the passer well. Finding 4-3 DEs is much easier. In addition, most 3-4 NTs have been big, run-stuffing types who can't rush the passer. There have been some exceptions, but they've been just that...exceptions.

    Then there are the different types of 3-4 alignments. Some use their DEs to just eat blockers and hold the edge, while others, like the Texans use them to rush the QB. IMO the 3-4 D is just to hard to find the right players. With a traditional 4-3 D alignment it is much simpler to find the players whose skills fit. Even the Tampa Bay 4-3 alignment with the 3T is getting easier to fill, because there seem to be more DTs who have the speed/quickness to penetrate than there were a decade or two ago.
     
  17. Jets81

    Jets81 Well-Known Member

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    I know you disagreed with my initial post, but you’re kind of agreeing with it here. I said I don’t expect the team to be good in 2021 (as in making the playoffs good), and if things are going well, possibly compete for a playoff birth in 2022.
     
  18. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    Interesting you say that, I had the same thought but then I look at Pittsburgh Steelers and they have had the ability to find the pass rushing OLB that fits their system, they selected Ryan Shazier who had to retire because of injury and Bud Dupree from Kentucky just a couple of years ago.

    Those guys are there to be had the problem is not the players not being there, it’s the Jets have sucked at drafting. I still prefer the 4-3 over the 3-4 alignment but the players are there.

    Jets GMs have been so bad that they simply employed wrong strategy, this is why I believe JD will get it right, it’s not going to be pretty but I bet it will be boring.
     
  19. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    The biggest thing this team needs to do is get better in the passing game both on offense & defense. It wont fix everything bc the Running offense is dreadful but its a neccesary starting point bc the team has neglected it for so long that theyve fallen behind the rest of the league in sheer roster structure.

    They have no answer for 3rd & long on either side of the ball & any defecit larger than 1 score seems insurmountable.While the D cant hold the lead OR get off the field.
     
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  20. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there are some 3-4 OLBs there, but not nearly as many as 4-3 DEs, and that's the crux of the issue. It all depends upon where one is drafting, how one evaluates the players, and luck. I've been wanting a pass rusher since Jon Abraham was traded. I watch the players rated to go in the 1st round of the draft closely every year, and most years, there are only 1-2 elite pass-rushing prospects and they go early. Some years, there are none. The Jets have hurt themselves some by bad scouting, and by having so many holes that they sometimes have taken a player at another position rather than the OLB (like in 2019), and sometimes by trying to get their pass rush from the DL rather than the OLB position, but for the most part, the Jets have simply not had the opportunity to draft the best OLB prospects (in the 1st round). They've had no ability to find one in a lower round, either, but most of the best ones have gone in the 1st round.

    I agree that bad strategy on the part of the GMs has been part of the problem. Starting with Rex, they have been obsessed with trying to get pressure from the DL rather than the OLB position, but that could have been out of necessity rather than desire, because quite often they just haven't been drafting where they could draft one of the elite pass rushers. I only remember 3 times since Abraham was traded where the Jets had the opportunity to draft a supposedly elite pass rusher in the 1st round. One was Gholston, another was last year (Josh Allen), and the third was Bud Dupree. Dupree was drafted at #22 by the Steelers. The Jets picked #3. I don't know if Mac tried to trade down and couldn't or was just that sold on Williams. I think it was probably the latter. I know that Mac claimed some years that he tried to trade down, but couldn't find a trade partner. I don't know if this was his incompetence or if there were really no legit trade partners.

    The Jets could have drafted Ngakoue as he was drafted in the 3rd round, but evidently didn't evaluate/scout him properly and passed on him. I never looked at him prior to the draft, but remember several posters here that were very high on him. I may be mistaken, but I don't remember any other topnotch pass rushers that the Jets passed on.
     
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