QB pre season comparison after 3 games (15 drives each)

So now we have descended into defending brutal passes by breaking aspects of the pass down, and praising him for elements of it while conveniently ignoring that passing is a combined process of many key things. Any element that's significantly subpar, IN THE NFL, makes you a useless QB.

Tebow may have improved his release and footwork by some, but it's maybe a 5% improvement since college, when he needs ten times the improvement in that area. So 30 years from now, he might have a proper release.

Tebows ability to read a defense, go through progressions, and anticipate routes may be improved, but it's still among the worst I have ever seen from an NFL QB. He went from inexcusably bad, to terribly bad. At this rate, he'll learn to read a defense when he's dead.

I'm sorry if I cannot commend him on throwing a spiral. Antonio Cromartie can throw a spiral. Your average 12 year old on Thanksgiving can throw a spiral.

And the last thing: people who are delusional about Tebow acknowledge that he needs to improve. People who see him for what he is realize that his improvement has been very slowly, very minor, and needs to go a long , long way to get to the point of being even a serviceable pro QB.

But even if he could drastically accelerate his improvement trajectory, I want the Tebow fans to understand something: he cannot improve as a wild cat player and punt protector. And unfortunately for him and his fans, that is what he will be doing for the foreseeable future. You see he won't be practicing how to go through progressions, read defenses, lining up under center, audibling, or even throwing typical routes.

Even if the mountainous amount of work to be done to achieve adequate QB skills could be accomplished, how is he going to learn to be an NFL QB when he won't be playing the position? Magic?

 

He's not going to develop as quickly as he would if a team had just committed to him, given him all the reps.

Agreed, his development has been slowed by that very factor you pointed. Good call -- that does partially explain his current level of proficiency, because he has less time "practicing how to go through progressions, read defenses, lining up under center, audibling, or even throwing typical routes." And as you point out, that's the only thing that will do it -- not just throwing on your own.

So, what he's doing now is in the best interest of the Jets winning, not necessarily the fastest development path for him. But, that's all he gets. He doesn't get to decide that. You take the chances you can get and make the best of them.

 

"His level of proficiency" is what he always was. I think that's the biggest disconnect here.

Tebow is a cat, trying to be a dog. Logical people know a cat cannot just turn into a dog. Tebow fans think that if the cat tries hard enough, bc of its tremendous will, that it can magically turn into a dog.

And of course then there's the whole even if he could transform, he'd need practice which for the foreseeable future he won't be getting.

By the way, in a league where having elite QBs is everything, if GMs and coaches thought he could turn into a QB, why would they waste time having him on specials? A franchise QB is infinitely more valuable than a few fake punts a year. Could it be that they feel that a few fake punts a year is more valuable than what Tebow could ever become?

 

What planet are you living on? They don't think he's a "franchise QB." He's a backup. A running quarterback who can help off the bench.

There's some of us who think he's very good, and will get a chance to start again. This is primarily because:

1. Elite athleticism
2. Cannon for an arm.
3. Clutch play-making ability
4. Good size -- height and hands.
5. Driven work ethic to learn.

You're having a conversation that's all in your head -- Tebow's got to develop a lot this year and in the years to come, but despite the recent trend of wunkerkinds, that's not an uncommon path for a quarterback.

If people believe a player is good, so what? He's an NFL quarterback on an NFL team, going into his third year -- I'll bet he's already had more of a career in the NFL than you ever thought.

If you were honest with yourself, I'll bet he's better at running the ball in the NFL than you ever thought he'd be -- I heard an awful lot of "He's not going to be able to run it in the NFL, because all he did was run over people in college, with good blockers, and by the his 40 time was slow." Now, from some of those same people, I'm hearing "He could be elite as an H back, I never said he wasn't elite as a runner."

Just let things play out -- I happen to think Terrell Pryor will leap-frog Matt Leinart for the Raiders, when Carson Palmer gets benched. Sure, we could argue all day about Terrell Pryor, and how he's "not a franchise QB." The point is that Terrell Pryor might also be developing himself and getting the hang of things.

You seem determined to convince people who think Tebow is a good NFL QB that they never should have thought that. But you know that's pointless -- Tebow's got plenty enough going for him to have football fans. People like running quarterbacks anyway. It's exciting. It's natural to think "if he can run like that, and throw kind of decent, he could be good."

 

Logical people also know metaphors are often used because the "logical" argument isn't convincing.

I notice most of the more irrational Tebow skeptics haven't responded to this post:

http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?p=2555927#post2555927


Wondering why.

 

1) Have you seen Antonio Cromartie throw a football? He has a cannon too. Is also elite athletically, has great size, works hard, is a winner, etc. Should he also be a QB????

2) How is Tebow going to develop this year when the other QBs are looking at defensive readouts while he's on the punt team? He's not going to be playing the QB position at all, so unless magic exists, he won't be able to develop, even if the slight chance exists that he could.

3) Your obsession with "excitement" is the biggest giveaway that you know little about the game. and it's not that if he could only throw better; he is below 40% completion against third stringers. He's not a QB at all, and his "improvement" is going at a snails pace, and will go even slower now that he is being used as a gadget player.

 

Cool story bro. 66% completion percentage over 4 years in college.

The biggest disconnect here is how you and others in the Tebow Haters Cult want to re-write history to say that Tebow was something other than one of the most elite passing QB's in NCAA history.

 

Don't like the metaphor?

Ok here's just fact:

- Tebow completed under 40% of his passes against third stringers.
-Tebow was passed over by 32 expert GMs who know more about football than all of us here as a starting QB
-Tebow is the "backup QB" who will be spending time on the punt team instead of learning to be a QB bc the Jets value him more as a personal protector than passer
- any perceived improvement in his mechanics and footwork has still rendered him wildly ineffective as a passer
- any thoughts of him being able to improve as a passer died when we learned that he will not be running the real offense, just the wildcat and playing on specials, rendering his QB career on complete hiatus as long as he's a Jet.

 

Yep, that's one set of facts.

Here are others: http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?p=2555927#post2555927

 

"But, but, the Gators! But, but, the NCAA"

Perhaps the Jets should bring in Eric Crouch, Ken Dorsey, Charlie White, Charlie Ward, Vince Young, Pat White, Graham Harrell, Danny Wuerffel and Troy Smith to camp next year.

He was the same exact guy in college, but he was playing against kids, 95% of them who wouldn't make an NFL roster, and coordinators who are in college for a reason. Do you not understand how drastically different the NFL is to college? They are almost different sports, the NFL is so much more complex/competitive/difficult.

 

Cherry picked stats that have been owned by at least half a dozen other forum members?

Would you like me to highlight BrowningNagle and CVALS posts or can you just read them from that thread?

Btw, I'm not sure why people compare Tebow, a wildcat player and punt protector, to QBs when he no longer plays that position. 32 GMs see things the way sane Jets fans do. I guess you know more than every GM in the world?

 

So do the 32 GMs who passed on him after seeing his body of work also "hate" him?

Tim Tebow supporters make me understand how Adolf Hitler came to power. People will believe whatever they want and follow someone no matter what. You do realize you people are sick and cult-like? It's not normal for grown men to be so obsessed with someone like this. It's scary.

 

Explain to me how those are cherry-picked.

Yes, I would like you to show me where cval, BrowningNagle or anyone else "owned" that particular post. I can't find where they even commented on it.

His more rational skeptics have admitted they are as fair a comparison as can be made, in fact, they favor Sanchez as far as how they were selected, but the person who posted went out of his way to be objective.

The irrational ones refuse to confront them.

Tebowphobes.

Just went back and looked. Neither cval nor BN addressed that post at all.

 

Any NFL team could have had him for what was a tiny price. It came down to Jacksonville (who told him he would not start) and the Jets (who told him he would play in our wildcat package and on special teams).

This is a league where a franchise QB is EVERYTHING, and not one team wanted to make this guy their franchise QB. The team that drafted him didn't even want him to stick around and learn from Manning.

If the Jets wanted him to either 1) be their starting QB 2) learn the position to eventually be their starting QB 3) learn the position to make a killing on a trade, why on earth would they have him as a wildcat QB and personal protector?

I'll answer for you: bc they don't see him as a franchise NFL QB. Not one GM does. Not even GMs with Gator fan bases and horrible QBs (Jax, Miami)!

Are they ALL haters? Is Rex and Tanny a hater bc clearly, if they felt he was a QB, they wouldn't be putting him on special teams!

(castigated, they are ALL OVER that entire thread. I guess Tebow fans really are delusional)

 

No, they're not.

Here are the points again...

Not one Tebow skeptic addressed the points made in that post. If they did, you could point them out to me, right?

(Mind you, the post I referenced wasn't the original post, so you may be confused, or distracted by cats and dogs.)

 

I'm going to guess that Rex can see that Tebow can contribute to the team in a variety of ways. Tebow did take 2nd team snaps all through training camp. If I remember right he also got some first team reps also.

 

He got reps as the backup QB and in the wildcat, as well as as the personal protector on the punt team. That is his role. That's what his skill set works for.

Let me ask you, do you think the Carolina Panthers would ever even consider using Cam Newton (a more athletic version of Tebow), as the personal protector on their punt team?

The value of a franchise QB is so great, and Tim Tebow has not been assigned that value by any GM in the league. Are these experts all haters?