If Nelson played like Hill then yes we'd want him gone. If Nelson played like he did in '13 for us then we'd be thrilled to have found a solid receiver. Hill was drafted to be our number 2 receiver. Are you really about to argue with me about that? Yes he was a project but that is just the Jets poor personnel decision by placing him in a role he had no business in in the first place. So since he's in that role we want to see him be productive. No one expected him to be Randy Moss in '98, but still.
But he was close to as productive as Nelson was in '13, unless you consider a week 16 TD to be the difference maker on the season? Do I wish hill progressed more in year. 2? Absolutely it would have helped this team immensely, but that wasn't a realistic expectation. You can't blame hill for roster management issues. And having a bad gm put a player In a bad situation is no reason to write them off. If in 10 months we're having this conversation I'll cut hill myself ... But i honestly think he has potential to be 10xs the wr Nelson ever will be. Maybe I'm just crazy Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hill in his first 3 or 4 games was ok. Then he got clocked against the Titans and was not the same afterwards. Nelson was more productive for us last year. He had plenty of big catches to keep the drive alive, he made a ton of tough catches. At least this season Hill's role will be reduced. He can come in for a few deep routes etc. Maybe the light will come on.
Let me get this straight, Hill couldn't physically impose his will on smaller corners before, you think him gaining some muscle will change that? I doubt it at this stage. I always believe if you have a skill-set that can translate to the NFL, you have a chance to succeed, and I do not believe Hill has a particular skill-set that can make him somewhat productive early in his career. He can't take a hit down the middle and he can't go up and grab balls vertically. He did once against the Pats and that is the only time I've ever seen him do that. He's not getting open down the field. you need to make some plays to show you got that potential every-one raves about. I don't see it in Stephen Hill, he's not a football player. We made another mistake just like Vlad before him. Soon Hill will be cut, Vlad did and he was a 2nd rounder also. We felt the same way about Vlad - people defended him just like you. After this year, it'll be time to change the avatar buddy. And can you stop bringing up Megatron? Don't even mention his name in this thread, Stephen Hill is not worthy of that projection, just because they went to the same school (and a different offense) doesn't mean you can compare them. Who cares about mold in regards to physical receivers that can beat press coverage? Nelson gets open, makes plays, came in without a TC and off-season to work with Geno. Stephen Hill had all the opportunity and got benched.
What is all this "Nelson gets open", I've posted the stats, He played the same amount of games as Hill did and put up stats that are just as mediocre. Nelson was a stop gap that has now been filled long term ( hopefully ). I'm done arguing with you though, I'm not going to go around in circles, Agree to disagree I guess. By the way, King Ugly wasn't cut he played out his contract.
All I can say is watch the games again and keep your eye on Hill and Nelson when they are playing. Hill does not gain separation, Nelson does. Stop harping on their stats, if Nelson had as many opportunities as Hill he'd have much better stats. He didn't join the team until week 5, and it takes time to integrate into the offense. The fact that he has better stats when he joined the team at week 5 while Hill was handed a starting job week is proof he is more productive. Just sit through all the games again, I've watched all of the games at least twice, some more, and I'm telling you Nelson is straight up better.
Cool to see the numbers match what my eyes told me, always thought Kerley was reliable and rarely dropped stuff. Hopefully he can get better and more looks with some WR around him.
Stephen Hill -- 594 snaps/57 percent David Nelson -- 568 snaps/54 percent They played the same number of games last season and Hill was active in a number but didn't play 100% snaps because of a few injuries and I've linked at least 2 articles that show Hill gaining separation and making progress in the beginning of the season before he took a few dings. I'm not saying that Nelson isn't better then Hill in their 2013 form. Nelsons stats ARE indeed slightly better then Hills. ( And the fact that they are close, when one is a Veteran WR and one is one of the Rawest Starting WRS in the league, should say something ). But really, What I'm trying to get across is that I can say in pretty good confidence that there is a lot better chance for Hill to take a big leap in his third year ( or maybe even forth ) then Nelson does going into his 5th and 6th. Therefore, In my mind Hill is worth more to the team right now regardless of what their production was last year. It would be silly to cut either of them with our current depth chart, But if it came down to it I'm showing Nelson the door. Back on track; Kerley is a fantastic find by Tanny, We need to lock him and Wilk up for a few more years.
I feel like I should add while Nelson was not a top tier talent, he did a lot for us end of last year and seemed to develop a good chemistry with Geno quickly. I appreciate both of those things. I just don't think his ceiling is much higher then what we've seen at this point. He was a needed depth guy, but there's a reason he was unemployed the first part of 2013.
Don't know, don't care how many balls Kerley dropped. When he was in, we couldn't move the ball hardly at all. When he was hurt, we couldn't move the ball at all.
We will probably draft a receiver within the first couple of rounds, maybe get Jackson, and then probably draft another 1 - 2 receivers in the later rounds, and take another 2 - 3 UDFAs to compete as well. It's not a given that he'll keep his roster spot- he has stone hands and an injury history working against him. They might decide the Hill experiment was a failure if he doesn't impress in the offseason.
Isn't Cotchery on the market right now? Or was that last season? I don't know why we haven't tried to bring him back but I have always hated that he left. I recall there was an issue but I don't know if it was something that would prohibit his return. In any event, he was a player I really liked and we've been the worse for losing him.
I am really pulling for Stephen Hill but even I have to admit that this TC is gonna be put up or shut up. Even if he makes it thru he will have to perform this season to get any slack back. As for Nelson, I saw enough that even if he is a poor man's Decker, I'm cool with that. Since we are poor at WR I think we need whomever we can get, especially if we lose someone to injury. Anyway, running multiple possession receivers is hardly the worst way to use WRs. WC and KJ were both possession receivers, albeit in different molds, and they were w wicked team. I'm not saying that we have that again, but if we can get some of that type of performance back I'll be okay with it. As my grandma used to say: beggars can't be choosers.
I 100% agree, Idzik has no ties to Hill as he didn't draft him. He already gave Nelson a multiple year contract extension so based off of that I think he favors Nelson. Granted there was no reason to do anything with Hill's contact as he's still on his rookie deal, but I just don't see Idzik keeping Hill past 2014 if he shows no improvement. Idzik may very well cut him this year if he shows no signs of improvement in training camp and we have depth at the position from the draft. If a late round draft pick or even an undrafted free agent is out-performing Hill in tc he's getting shown the door. We can keep a max of 5-6 receivers but that means the guys at the bottom of the depth chat have to play special teams. I'm pulling for Hill cause it would really be in our teams best interest if he's still here and performing after only 3 seasons. He has the height and the speed, he just has to put it all together. Hopefully the game slows down a little for him this year so he can just act and not think. Even if he pulls in just one deep ball a game it would be worth the 2nd round pick we used to draft him. Cause if he's doing that even once a game it means that whenever he's in the defense can't keep 8 in the box and it'll help our running game. So in summary I hope he improves and is on the team for a long time, but I just don't see it happening. Every training camp I felt that Vlad would put it together and every training camp he failed to live up to his potential. Hill has to start living up to his potential and soon, and just to be safe he should also learn to play special teams.
