They are close wvereywhere else. Peyton gets the nod in the reg season but I weigh postseason performances more heavily b/c they both had teams capable of winning SBs. if Peyton was QBing the '08 Lions and Brady the '89 Niners I wouldn't weigh it as heavily. You don't think Brady has been better in postseason?
How many tackles did Garcon break? How many YAC yards did he get? I use your type of argument. Brady led their offense to only 14 pts. That?s how you base your arguments so I do the same. Yeah, you?re right?They chose to only average 3.5 yds per carry. I asked you first. You?re the one who?s making the blanket assumption that all of Brady?s INTs had no effect on the game and that all of Bledsoe?s INTs were game changers. You like to put words in my mouth. They had a very effective running game in 2001. Especially compared to 2000. Their two leading rushers in 2000 averaged 3.5 and 3.2 YPC and Smith averaged 4 YPC.That?s a big difference. You have made the suggestion many times that the only reason NE was able to run the ball was because of Brady. If one of those drives go for a TD instead of 0 points they win. At 14-12 you could turn the game off? This is laughable. At 14-12 and Brady throwing INTs like they are going out of style and you think the game was never in doubt? I?m sorry?.did you seriously say at 14-12 you could turn the game off?!?!?!? WTF?!
I'll review the tapae this weekend and let you know Garcon's YAC. This is getting really boring. When you actually have an argument let me know. How did the Colts running game do Sunday? You did know they had some injuries at RB this year too, right? of course you did b/c you know everything- well at least you know that no matter what happens if it is good it's b/c of peyton and if it's bad it is everyone's fault but peyton. Did you watch NE play at all in 2000 or the 1st 2 games of '01? Antowain Smith averaged 2.5 YPC when Bledsoe was the QB the first 2 games in 2001. Opposing defenses averaged 4.5 YPC against us in 2001 and 3.7 against Cincy. It must have been a crazy coincidence that Smith got it going after Brady came in. But you don't score on every drive. Peyton got the ball at the Indy 42 against Pitt in '05, if that drive goes for a TD they win. SD never scored again and NE would score a TD soon after to make it a 2 score game. SD never had the lead in the 2nd half and never threatened to take the lead. They had one possession down 14-12 and they got to their own 20 before they punted then NE scored the TD. That game was as in jeaopardy in the 4th qtr as our game was on Sunday.
I'll do the same. You're right it is boring. 14 of Indy?s 23 carries went for 3 yards or less. That?s not the numbers of a rushing game that can run whenever they want. Why do you need to make this personal? Debate the topic please. How much of the 2000 Patriots did YOU watch? You?re the one who?s making blanket comments. They had their opportunities and Brady couldn?t get the job done. Why do you want to give him all the credit in the world, but then totally ignore when he couldn?t get the job done. A 14 -12 game is not one that you just turn off especially when Brady is throwing INTs like they are going out of style. Nice try though.
I didn't make it personal you started w/ the little digs, I don't take anything personal and I don't make things personal. I like you but that doesn't mean I won't attack your arguments. Most rushes are 3 yards or less, the avg gets up from the 10-15 yd run. Check Greene's #s against SD, his YPC was well under 4 before the long run but after a day's work he had a great game just like Indy's run D against us. I saw alot of the 2000 Pats, at least half their games. I used to get the CT CBS channel and get all their games so as long as it wasn't opposite us i was likely watching it. How did Brady not get the job done? They won by 2 scores. If Brady throwing 3 INTs was "throwing INTs like they are going out of style" what was manning and his 4 in 2003 like? By the way, here is a good article- some of which I disagree w/ but overall it's a good read: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...ontana_others_as_best_quarterback_of_all.html
What little digs? Good running teams have 4 or 5 yard runs more regularly than they do 2 or 3 yd runs. But okay...They had 1 Two yard run 3 runs of 0 yards or less and 8 runs of one yard. Not very effective running. Give us details of the 2000 Pats season. He threw 3 INTs in the SD game. You're the only person I';ve ever heard say a 14-12 game was out of reach and you could turn the game off.. And even if that were somehow true, that game would have been unwinnable for the Chargers because of the Pats defense.
I didn't say 14-12 was out of reach, I said you could turn it off there. After that Brady threw an INT, SD got to their 20 then Brady led a TD drive and it was over. There wasn't a moment in that game where i felt SD was winning. Obviously I don't have the pats 2000 season committed to memory, I know bledsoe was awful and the biggest difference btw the '00 and '01 teams was at QB where Brady INSTANTLY changed the fortunes of that team. I saw it that day he first stepped on the field against us and I saw it the rest of the season. Do you think it was all a coincidence that NE started playing great as soon as he stepped on the field?
I think he ran the offense better than Bledsoe did. But the defense was better as well and so was their running game. You also have to remember Bledsoe was a different type of QB than Brady. He had lost is go to guy Ben Coates and always looked to get the ball down the field to Terry Glenn. The Pats offense wasn't designed for that. It was a terrible match.
Putting all the other stuff aside, you don't think the offense being better run and better overall helps the defnese out at all? They had some new players and the D was definitely better but they had those guys the first 2 weeks and they ahd Antowain Smith and they were terrible. The rumblings about BB's job were starting only 18 games into his Pats career. I do agree w/ your last sentence somewhat but coates stopped being effective a few years before he left/retired, Glenn was still a quality WR.
As usual you really add to a discussion Could? No question. The great thing about this debate is it's far from over. Payton could go on a run and make it not close, Brady could rebound and start playing like he used to pre-injury and begin to run away w/ it- we don't know.
Whatever, but I'm with Bubba Smith in totality. "Who is better, Manning or Unitas?" "Manning never gets touched. Unitas." And, add to the fact that the Archie part of the Jughead scenario petitioned the league and won to protect his son's mongoloid ass. Peyton "Don't Touch Me!" Manning, all he does is get non-holding calls on the OL line even before he takes the field. Three hundred years to recite epic poems at the line of scrimmage, then hold, hold, hold, if I could throw a football five feet I'd also be headed to HOF. This isn't to say I believe anyone shouldn't be protected from injury. It's a brutal sport; but pit this retard against the best in old time gladiator NFL, and he crumbles like a wuss. Even Ken O'Brien couldn't fold better if he TRIED. That being said, if anyone breathes on Manning, flag. I'm glad Brett Favre's ego did precisely what I predicted. I'm also glad Minnesota lost because of that, but my money says everyone down to the ball boy gets fined AND suspended if it was Manning. Go Katrina Gate.
and I'd like to take this time to formally apologize to Junc. I'll never dispute your analysis on this topic again.
He did not have a good game and his team lost. What else can you say? To me, Brady, Manning, Brees, and Roethlisberger were the 4 best QBs of the 2000s. In the Brady-Manning debate in the past here, I was with nyjunc. Manning gets the regular season edge, but Brady has the postseason edge. If you weigh postseason results more heavily, then you have to rank Brady ahead of Manning.
he did but did he throw an INT that cost his team the game? I think the Brady vs. manning debate is closed for a while. Both players still have many years to change minds but for now clearly Brady is ahead by a decent margin. :up:
Brady plays in weather and elements, Manning's numbers are inflated from playing in perfect conditions in the dome. He's a great QB but I would have liked to see him at Shea, in that wind tunnel! :wink:
