Why is that not fair? My point is that this team chances of losing are greater when is Chad plays poorly is because we don't have a strong running game. I was responding to Exit 117's comment
You have any examples to back up your wild accusations? Our Wrs have all played 16 games, I can't think of one fumble by any of our Wrs, I could only think of the Coles drop in the Miami game which happened to be a good pass fit in between two defenders that was defended perfectly. His intereceptions have mostly been mental errors, not caused by lack of arm strength.. Why don't you cite some examples to back up your claims..
The lack of arm strength is always going to be an issue. Whereas Chad might float a ball over a WR's head to be picked off, a QB with a stronger arm might rifle it in there and have it hit the ground before it can be picked or have it sail over the deep defenders head as well. Almost any throw Pennington makes is going to be more likely to be picked off then a similar throw with a stronger arm behind it. And as you note, this year he's made more mental errors then usual. When you combine this fact with the weak arm you begin to see why some people are looking for a change next year. To me what your saying would be like if you had a pitcher in baseball that threw 70 mph and gave up alot of HRs and you argued that giving up the HRs was his problem, not the lack of velocity on his pitches. You're hitting at the effect, not the root cause of the problem.
Come on. LT is the best player in the game. He's an unstoppable machine. Over a 5 game stretch, with ME as the QB, San Diego would win games on LT's back. Having a strong running game is one thing. Having a player that can't be defended is a totally different story.
Well the thing that baffles me is how some of us put the player ahead of the team really shocking if you ask me. I agree with your post 100%
You want a clear example? The Miami game! That ball SHOULD have been picked off. It was in the defender's hands. It hit his damn CHEST. That was a total mental mistake by the player, nothing else, that prevented that from being a game-killer. And I STILL want an answer from some sunshiners about how they would feel if one of these times Chad floats one up, it ends Coles' season.
I didn't say that fumbles and injuries and whatnot were absolute definite as a result of his passes, I said that WRs are more likely to do so. And Coles had a few drops in the Miami game that can be blamed on lobbed, floating passes. Let's not forget Leon getting destroyed, either.
This part I agree with 100%. He has made more mental errors than in the past and that is what has gotten him in trouble this year. He has proven that when he is in control of the game mentally that he can overcome his physical limitations. Like I have said, I'm not sure if Chad can be the Qb to take this team to the next level but if he is not it won't be because of his arm strength, more like his mental qualities have been overrated. I'm looking foward to the next couple weeks, we'll know alot more about our Qb and his future with the team and truly get a better feel of whether or not he can win us the big one.
A horrible decision again. It should have been picked off, the ball was thrown right to him. But another one that had nothing to do with arm strength, rather a mental mistake. I don't view myself as a sunshiner but I will answer anyway. THAT IS FOOTBALL, a WR can be flattened by ANY pass thrown by ANY QB. They have been playing together for more than 4 years now and it hasn't happened yet, therefore it is a bogus fear.
I think we're basically in agreement, just differ on exactly what is a mental mistake and what is physical limitation. Is it a mental mistake trying to throw the same passes that had success against the Packers and the Vikings against the Fins? You could certainly make this argument but on the other hand it is his physical limitations that prevent him from being able to complete those passes against the better defenses.
For the millionth time on this site. The pass to Leon was another terrible dicision, it should not have been thrown, NOTHING TO DO WITH ARM STRENGTH..
The ball wasn't intercepted. Get over it. Chad got lucky. Just as every other QB in the league gets lucky many times during the season. Chad is not the only QB that has balls dropped. Montana got lucky in the same manner in the SB vs. the Bengals. Doesn't mean that we should take away one of his rings. Strong arm QB's have dropped INT's too. As for your waiting on the Coles question, you must not have seen my earlier post (or decided to ignore it). Not that I am a sunshiner (I do reckognize Chad's limitations) but if Coles got hurt on a pass that had Coles exposed out I would feel bad. However, I would feel no worse than if a strong armed QB threw an errant pass and got his WR killed. To me inaccurate throws where the WR has to stretch just to have a chance to catch the ball are just as likely to cause injury to the WR as "late" throws.
I blame arm strength. That pass was intended for JMac? He was about 3 yards further downfield than the defender. If that ball comes over his shoulder, he's got at least a 15 yard reception. Yes, football is a tough sport. Yes, guys will get hit. Yes, guys will get hurt. My point is, how many times EVERY SINGLE WEEK is this going to be okay? Joey Harrington became public enemy #1 for doing the same thing in Detroit. But Chad, simply because he's a miracle boy, gets a free pass. To me, that's ludicrous. If it were simply once in a while, like ALL QBs do, then there would be nothing to complain about. But again, this is week after week. And every time, it seems to be Coles who is taking the hit. A human body can only take but so much abuse.
Refer back to my earlier point about O'Brien and Toon, which you ignored through all your ranting. Nobody had a stronger arm than O'Brien and he put Toon out of the game for good. And I say that as a huge fan of both, but that's the reality. It happens.
I ran a search over this thread and I cannot find any mention you made about either Toon or O'Brien. Are you sure it was this thread? I do my best to read every word of every post when I am involved in a thread, and I never intentionally ignore anyone's words. As for your point, O'Brien STILL takes heat for ending Toon's career. But now suddenly it would be different if it was Penny doing it to Coles? The manlove for Chad here is too much. I still want him to succeed here, but not at all costs. Coles IS the future. Chad may or may not be. Why is everyone so willing to throw it all away for a guy simply because of personal feelings towards him?
This is Raiders week. Can we all get along and make fun of the Raiders tonight and over the weekend? Next week will probably be Colts or Patriots week. The Jets will probably be eliminated on January 7 (I'm thinking they'll play in the Sunday AFC game). We can argue about Pennington's future on January 8 and beyond.
I cannot understand why you are willing to throw away Chad on the (very) off chance he'll end Coles' career.
Why do the Chad haters think the Chad supporters support him due to some kind of "personal feelings"? My support of Chad is based the fact the teams wins more than it loses when he plays... he gives us the best chance to win right now and in the near future... so let me ask you, who do you want to QB who's better and available?
I agree with you on this one Tony. While not a fan of Chad's style of play, I think the argument that having a weak arm is going to put our players at risk is specious at best. Guys with rocket arm throw balls high down the field all the time when defenders are on the full run and WR are fully stretched. The pass to Washington was just dumb, it had nothing to do with arm strength and the pass to Coles was high and he was extended, a good arm might fire it in a little wide and high and you might have had the exact same punishing hit on an awkwardly extended WR?
