Didn't you guys get the memo, no smart person ever came out of Mississippi. Be careful with saying QB's are smart. I use Terry Bradshaw as an example. One of his teamates coined the phrase, " he couldn't spell C-A-T if you spotted him a C and a T". Just saying.
Well, if we're going to judge intellect by what someone says, we have to do the same with what they write. You wrote "Let's assume you are correct about Favre become a smarter QB last year.", which is a poor use of the English language. Now I don't think you're an unintelligent person, and were I to judge solely on that grammatical error, I'd miss out on your usual good posts. See the error in this line of thinking? ------------- Now as for Favre, it did not take him 16 years to learn how to be a smart QB. It took him a couple extra years to learn how to play with a less-than-stellar cast. When he winning titles, he had receivers that were able to get more physical downfield and pull down balls. The past few years in Green Bay he's taken more on his own back, rather than trust a cast with less skill. Favre is not a stupid man, nor is he a stupid football player. He's one of the best QBs to ever play the game. You're making arguments against him solely because you don't like him. I can live and let live in terms of you not liking him as a person. However, I have to take issue with unsubstantiated claims of a lack of intelligence.
Oh come on now. Any idiot can be come the NFL's all time passing leader and win superbowls. Farve is a moron who probly can't read a playbook. :wink:
Let me see. With all Penny's Smart he didn't have a problem finding Opposing Cb's for game ending Pick six's last year. I know we as Jet fans have to have a brilliant non throwing Qb instead of a guy who got bad wonderlick scores like Farve, Marino, Bradshaw or Aikman. All Chad does is win!
Quote: "...Favre had a bad 3-4 year stretch where he was throwing a lot of stupid prayers that resulted in a lot of interceptions. Those years make his career numbers a lot worse than before them...." Why do you think Brett decided to say "To hell with it" and chunk the pumpkin all over the place...? It seems to me that Brett was responding to the inconsistent play of his team, and decided to have some fun anyway and wing it. What makes anyone think that this wouldn't be Brett's 'studied response' to his perception of the NYJ's performance with Brett, a seat-of-the-pants QB, behind the center...?
Now, following your line of reasoning, wouldn't one assume that an intelligent person could tell the difference between a typo and a grammatical error? See my line of thinking? :wink: Actually, the motivation for my initial post was not anti-Favre, but anti the Pennington bashers. I simply do not believe Pennington is as bad as many people seem to think, nor do I believe that Favre, at this stage of his career, is a good. Yes, I was in the group that wanted to see what Clemens could do last year, but after witnessing that performance I'm not sure he's the answer. Someone posted a list of QBs who struggled early on in their careers, and while I understand the point, you can also discern how a QB might develop by watching the way they handle themselves and react to certain situations. It's not Clemens statistics that scare me, it's the fact he just didn't "look" like a franchise QB. So yes, young QBs can make a lot of bad throws, but some just look better doing it, if you get my point.
It does not matter why because he has corrected the problem. He was trying to do too much to help his team win which ended up hurting the team in the end (too many INT's). I don't think he would do that as he's learned not to over the past two years. Again, why is this concept so difficult to grasp? There are a few articles out there documenting McCarthy helping Favre work through this. Everyone wants to come up with doom and gloom shit that could happen with Favre. Yes, there are risks involved - sometimes you need to take risks to gain rewards.
Why do some give Favre the benefit of the doubt and not Pennington? Last year was more the exception for Chad in terms of bad throws. It's not like he has a huge history of them. In fact, didn't he have some amazing streak of not throwing an interception in the red zone? The whole team, including Pennington, wasn't very good last year. Do I think Chad is a long-term solution? No, but if it's not Ainge or Ratliff I'm not sure the Jets have one on their current roster, and I know Favre certainly isn't the long-term answer.
^ Because Favre had a HOF career and is still playing at a very high level. Chad had ONE, count 'em, ONE great season followed by years of hovering around average.
Everyone wants to come up with doom and gloom shit that could happen with Pennington. If Favre was younger, of course you'd take the risk. But at 39, on a team that still has a lot of question marks, I don't see the point. Did Favre play better last year because the team was better or more the other way around? All I know is, the last time he played on a team with a poor record he sucked.
Quote: "...There are a few articles out there documenting McCarthy helping Favre work through this...." In my opinion, the best thing that the Green Bay Packers did to help Brett work through this was to improve the receivers and the running game substantially. This gave him back the hope and then made it possible for Brett to find some onfidence once again that the team could win. If this reticence on Brett's part to take the NYJs seriously as a contender is as real as it's reported, then there's a good chance that Brett's learning and then fitting into the BS offensive strategy, coupled with the time it takes for Brett to come to believe in the NYJs' ability to win, will take us into mid-season. That's if this two-pronged process (not so simple either) is managed efficiently by Brett and by the CS and by Brett's NYJs team mates. Quite apart from resumes (from the past as well as the unknown performance of this new player combination), how all these people mesh and successfully learn to play together starting from say 3 August 08 is a brand-new issue that needs to be taken into account, it seems to me. Maybe that's a damned good reason to call off all the practices today -- because it can't be because of Coles' bellyaching...
Clemens looked pretty good on the pass he threw to Mc-Drop in the Raven game or the Drop to Cotchery that would have put us in Fg position to win the Redskin Game. Kellen finished 3-4 and Chad finished 1-9 and Kellen had to throw to Wallace Wright and Brad smith as his 2nd and 3rd receivers in a game because Chad got Coles Ko'd with one of his wobbles in another game.
The problem is that you're comparing Favre to Pennington like it's a reasonable thing to do. Pennington is not in the same class. Not even the same universe. If you don't think Favre gives us a shot at the superbowl, I understand why you wouldn't want him.
Im not worried about the bad throws or the picks that Chad made. Im worried because the man can not throw basic passes that an Nfl Qb should be able to make without risk of interception at an above avg rate. Im tired of him checking down every other play because he can not make throws. Im tired of our team not being able to come back and win 95% of the time when we are behind in the 4th qtr with him at Qb. If were behind and he has to throw we lose. Period. Chad is no more a long term solution than Farve so the safe bet is to find out once an for all what we have in Clemens or Ainge. If Chad has any chance to start we might as well sign farve and have a punchers chance to win. Chad does not give us a chance to win anything and he never has.
Fourthandlong, your points fly in the face of what the CS and FO are doing. I have no way of knowing what they see nor how they are evaluating it. However, if they believed what you are saying, it seems to me there would never be any competition, and the draft would probably have been handled differently. As it stands, the actions taken by the CS / FO indicate a different line of reasoning from yours. 1. They think the offensive line, the TE/WRs, and the defense are in need of the greatest improvement now. 2. They don't know who the starting QB is and want to find out. 3. The fact that they don't know who the QB starter is seems to me indicative of (a) they still believe in Chad's ability, and (b) they still feel that Kellen is in the "early days" of his development and needs time to come into his own. 4. The reasoning behind the 'astounding' no. 3 above, is probably that the CS / FO believe that with a sound OL and a successful D, that their skill players (led by the running game, and spiced up by the passing game) will do a lot better. 5. While they are interested, they keep saying, in winning every game NOW, I get the impression that the CS / FO also believe that realistically they aren't going to go 19-0 this year with ANY combination of players plucked from other teams or graduated from within. So far this off-season, the CS / FO has done a lot of interesting things -- including taking today off, which is mysterious, enticing, and I'm sure has a lot of tongues wagging out at Hoffstra, and maybe even in MS.
Absolutely fair. However, I've yet to hear anything come out of Favre's mouth that sounded like he was any more or less intelligent than 99% of the other guys in the NFL. That's my only point. There's no real reason to say that Favre is unintelligent. I can understand that. I'm not necessarily anti-Chad. I'm just tired of seeing him fail. That's not a knock on him. If he wins the starting role I'll cheer as loudly as any other fan for him to be successful. I'm a Jets fan. I'm also admittedly a Favre fan, but that's had me following Green Bay for the past decade-plus, and has nothing to do with me wanting him here. I'd root for him anywhere. (Well, not on another AFC East team, but still.)
Chad has been on teams with Good Offensive lines and A future HOF running back and has not be able to get it done. After seeing Chads 17 T/D and 16 Int performance in 06 and his 1-8 disaster in 09 if they still think he is the answer they better be right. If not they should be walking out the door with Chad at the end of this season. Kellen is at the stage in his development where he has to play. Period. Realistically we need to plan for the future or we will repeat a mediocre past with Chad.
Fourthandlong, I think that if Chad and Kellen have a dominating offensive line and a successful offense, and still don't get it done, then there will be radical changes at QB. However, unless something is really happening in MS today, then the CS / FO believe they've got a good chance to win with the QBs we have. Like it or not, that's what their behavior says, in my opinion.
The fact of the matter is that the NFL quarterback rating is the single most overrated, over-emphasized, and over-hyped statistic in the history of professional (and probably amateur) sports. It is a rating system which gives FAR TOO MUCH weight to a quaterback's completion percentage and NOT NEARLY ENOUGH weight to his yards/attempt and/or yards/completion. Because of this fundamental flaw, quarterback rating greatly exaggerates the performance level of quarterbacks such as chad pennington and Brad Johnson, guys who rely on dinking and dunking the ball down the field due to an inherent lack of arm strength. All you have to do to realize that the NFL qb rating is a bunch of bs, is realize that Chad Pennington is CONSISTENTLY one of the highest rated quarterbacks in the league (always in the top 5). While I think Chad is an above-average quarterback and easily gets too much criticism on this board, I also realize that he is CERTAINLY not a top 5 quaterback and should not be rated as such. (In fact, I don't think he's a top 10 quarterback either - I think he's somewhere in the 12-15 range)
Game-Set-Match:rofl: How can the argument be even made at this point? Favre is 38? Pennington has the body of a 50 year old.
