All he did was lead us to the playoffs every time he was healthy(and sometimes when he wasn't and playing through pain) and lead us to only our 2nd ever AFC East title and he did it w/ class. I am THRILLED w/ Sanchez, I couldn't be happier to have mark as our QB going forward but that doesn't mean we cannot appreciate what Chad did for us. Yeah, he didn't play w/ balls playing w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder nearly leading us to the title game in 2004. no balls there. It's so embarrassing to be a fan sometimes when I read nonsense like that.
come on man. there are so many games which Chad played scared you know it. Oakland playoff game, virtually every time we played New England, Buffalo, Baltimore, Pitt, etc. anytime we had a BIG game and/or the other team smacked him or confused him early in the game he would play scared and revert to dumping it off. If you don't remember this and choose to glorify the vast minority of games which he played tough than you got to be kidding me! Chad would have been perfect for the Arizona Cardinals or the Houston Texans, teams like that. He could have played in a DOME every game for fans who don't expect much and "managed" his way to the playoffs (early exits). In NY we expect MORE from our QB. That's why even when Sanchez is having his WORST games he's still slinging it confidently and not playing scared. Testaverde same way. Blocker is right, no way in HELL that Rex would have stuck with the Pennington experiment had he been coach all those years..
Name me those games please? b/c a guy didn't play great doesn't mean he played scared. The oak playoff game was his first road playof game and he stunk but so did the rest of the offense. Coles was our worst player on O that day, Chrebet dropped a would be TD. He had more success against NE than anyone. In a game that ultimately decided the div title he led us up to NE in week 16 of '02 to a big win, NE wouldn't lose again at home for nearly 3 years. You expect more from your QB, more than the most playoff wins in team history to that point? more than most playoff apps in team history? more than most AFC East titles in team history? You expected him to lead us over a dynasty team like the Pats? Is that fair? His prime years he was in a division w/ a dynasty team and he still led us to the playoffs in years when he played 3/4 of games. he is the ONLY QB since 2001 other than Tom Brady to lead his team to a div title and the '02 div title he led us to is the only year a team other than NE won the div in a year Brady was healthy. No, he wasn't Tom Brady but there aren't many of those guys in NFL history but he was a good QB for us for many years and was nothing but class off the field.
I completely disagree that the building roared because he was hurt rather than because Clemens was making his "first appearance". I guess that's as far as we're going to get in this convo. Again, you're gonna have a hard time trying to convince someone who was cheering for Clemens that the building was cheering for Chad getting hurt.
People weren't roaring b/c they wanted to see Kellen Clemens. That was clearly a shot at Chad. There is absolutely no doubt about that.
And I completely disagree again. Like I said, you aren't gonna convince me of it when I was one of the people cheering for Clemens. Other than this point, I completely agree with you on Chad. He did nothing but good things for us when he was a Jet.
Maybe you were but the majority were not. I felt anger in the Stadium towards Chad and I'm sure it mostly had to do w/ the frustration of seeing him hurt once again but I don't believe people were cheering for Clemens.
No we wouldn't have, we didn't lose b/c of the QB. We lost b/c our D did not show up in the title game again.
Not saying we lost because of Mark... I love Mark... just think that Pennington in his prime would've helped us make that extra step.
I think a healthy Chad would have carved up Indy and NE but Pitt's attacking style of D is the type he struggled against.
FUCK NO- Absolutely retarded. In his prime he still didn't scare a defense into not stacking the box. Sanchez on or off target does just that. Chad was accurate as hell but couldn't make half the throws Mark makes without getting picked off by defenders waiting for the ball to finally come down. Chad could not have made that throw to Braylon on the game winning drive. Or the big passes to Cotch and Braylon vs the Pats. (3 TD passes too) Finally, against Pitt if you don't remember our D allowed 24 points to our 0 before we could blink. Mark brought us back in a great performance and a 102.2 QB rating vs one of the best D's in the league.
No one defends Mark mroe than I do but he played a poor game against Indy especially in the 1st half. His high throws killed us, he bounced bakc and played well in the 2nd but we likely don't need that last drive if he was on target in the 1st half. The pass to Cotch vs. NE was a crossing route 5 yds past the LOS- Chad couldn't make that throw? I think we would have beaten Indy and NE w/ a healthy Chad but not against Pitt. Mark gave us a better chance against Pitt, unfortunately the D was terrible.
No, that never would've been open had Chad been at QB, or he wouldn't have had the oomph on the ball to get it in. If he had completed it the box would've been stacked and Cotch would be down after 2 yards. I love Chad nohomo, but even a young Sanchez opens up our offense in ways that Chad could never do.
The oomph on a 5 yd crossing pattern? Chad was deadly accurate on the short/intermediate routes inside. he struggled w/ the deep outs. I think you and many others forget just how good a healthy Chad was.
To really zip it in, but on 5 yards you're correct. I was exaggerating a bit. Still that play would've ended nearly right where he caught it had the defense been preparing to face Chad and not Mark.
mark has a stronger arm but D's haven't been worried about our pass O YET, they gear up to stop the run game. In the coming years Mark will be #1 for D's to stop but not yet.
Junc.. I'm not gonna spend my day researching past games but everyone knows Pennington played tentative in many games.. especially big ones. It's true that when a guy plays bad its not always cause he is scared: look at Sanchez, Favre, Testaverde, etc. but when you can see with your own eyes guys with a step down field or in the corner and Pennington dumps it off and finishes with 25-30 completions for less than or barely 200 yds and maybe 1 TD: that's playing SCARED. To say he had his best games against New England is beyond ignorant, you are better than that Junc. New England OWNED Pennington for the better part of a decade. Belicheck had no fear of Pennington because he knew he couldnt make THE throw when it counted and you point out the ONE pats game in the ONE season where Pennington was excellent: that is what is unfair. As to the point about expecting him to take down the dynasty Pats.. I think back to that time and I know comparing him to Tom Brady is unfair, but history may be differant and the Pats might not be considered a dynasty if Pennington had just not been so skiddish against them. (or CLE, BUF, Pit, but I digress). consider 2004. Jets start out 5-0 and I will say Pennington played very very well up to that point. We meet the pats at 5-0 and Belicheck plays the old book on how to beat him. (stack the box... rush up the middle and force him to throw OUTSIDE the hashes) I remember looking at his eyes and never seeing a QB seem so lost and scared. I dont think he attempted a pass over 10 yards.. 19-30 162 yds.. 0 TD 0 INT : classic Pennington stat line. Guess what? Jets lost... Pennington at that point was better than the Sanchez we've seen the last couple years, but there's no way in hell Sanchez ends up with that stat line in that game. He'd throw 5 INTS before he did that but at least he would have thrown some of those outside corner routes. Maybe he wins, maybe he doesn't but at least New England and the rest of the league would have something different to look at. Pennington played right into that defense his whole career. Maybe we aren't in the position we were against Pit if that he buckles down and attempts some of those throws.. maybe New England wouldn't have coasted to the Super Bowl if he did.
Everybody doesnt't know that b/c it's not true, he wasn't tentative he just wasn't reckless w/ the ball. He didn't take unnecessary chances. Did he have some bad games agsinst good teams? of course, find me a QB who hasn't had bad games against top teams. It's not about yards or completions it's about wins and when healthy he led us to a ton of wins and to the playoffs every time. No we didn't get to a title game or a SB but a major reason why was the fact that we had the best team in the sport in our division. I didn't say he had HIS best games, I said he had more success against NE than any other QB and that is true. he was the only guy to beat Brayd and NE twice in Foxboro and one of those games was a game that would have resulted in another div title for NE. NE was MUCH better than us and won most of the games but we had more success than most teams against them. You think Chad's paly was why NE won 3 SBs in 4 years? Brady is the best QB in the sport, that was the difference and it's not fair to hold Chad up to that standard. Lost and scared? they played a low scoring game against a top defense(in the reg season), we lost 13-7 and late in the game Chad threw a pefect pass to McCareins in the EZ for the win and he dropped it. That was his fault? Was it Chad being scared that made Justin drop the pass? So you think if we throw 5 INts we have a better chance to win? NE didn't coast to any SBs, they always won close games and to think Chad Pennington is the main reason they won 3 in 4 years is downright silly. Peyton Manning w/ better talent couldn't beat those NE teams but you expected Chad to?
junc your points are spot on. People in this fan base are fickle, and have tend to have short memory. to say a guy played scared is just silly, and total opinion. I wonder how divided the fan base would get if Sanchez took a major injury. probably wouldn't take too long unfortunately.
