But you always say arm strength is not really as important as people make it out to me, it really shouldn't factor into your decision making. I can't wait to see how you twist those numbers. They are fact, junc! Why are you giving yourself wiggle room to elaborate on those numbers but not anyone else in other circumstances?
1. If you think so... 2. I was specific to state I was talking about real life not you're fantasy internet life... And yeah just for the record again... NO ONE LIKES YOU... YOU ARE A FUN SINK... IF YOU WEREN'T RELATED TO YOUR FAMILY THEY'D HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU... enjoy knowing everyone is disgusted when you enter a room and rolls their eyes & talks about you when you leave... 3. You make the board more interesting the way AIDS makes life more interesting... in the end it's just not worth the hassle
That is very possible, re: the CS misjudging their own talent, and it doesnt stop at QB. btw I think the numbers JUNC was looking for were TJs rushing stats in the Ravens game: 24 for 67.
No one hates Pennington. We all just hate losing. It doesn't appear that he is anywhere near the QB we saw come in for Vinny. He is broken down. His immobility coupled with his lack of arm strength is a killer combination. It kills our running game as well. We had a QB that was immobile, however he put the fear of god in defenses. He had a cannon for an arm. His name was Namath!
Baltimore: vs. Rudi Johnson, Edge and Jamal Lewis: gave up 3.4 YPC vs. Jones: 2.8 YPC Why did Jones average over half a yard less per carry against baltimore than the other backs? I just don't get it, Clemens has a stronger arm than leinart and Anderson so why did Jones sruggle w/ a strong armed QB? You guys have made a big deal about the running game being better w/ Clemens then why din't it improve w/ Clemens? I also wonder why our running game got immensely better in 2002 when Chad(the same Chad who holds back our running game now) came in for rocket armed Vinny?
one game your hinging a whole point in a long argument on one game.thats dumb, but anyways..... hmm lets see Bengals OL is better than ours and Jamal Lewis practiced against that D daily. that and Rudi Johnson > Thomas Jones and maybe even Jamal Lewis if he keeps it up. love penny all you want enjoy this year while you can cuz its over next year and i cant wait. I wish him all the luck but its time to move on. penny isnt on the 20 year plan.
OK, and let's compare the running game of the opponents of the teams that Chad has started against: NE: Code: [B]NY Jets Rush Yds Avg Lng TD FumL T. Jones 14 42 3.0 12 0 0[/B] San Diego Rush Yds Avg Lng TD FumL L. Tomlinson 18 43 2.4 11 0 0 Buffalo Rush Yds Avg Lng TD FumL M. Lynch 20 74 3.7 12 1 0 Cincinnati Rush Yds Avg Lng TD FumL K. Watson 13 55 4.2 16 0 0 Miami: Code: [B]NY Jets Rush Yds Avg Lng TD FumL T. Jones 25 110 4.4 12 0 0 [/B] Washington Rush Yds Avg Lng TD FumL C. Portis 17 98 5.8 19 1 0 Dallas Rush Yds Avg Lng TD FumL M. Barber III 14 89 6.4 40 2 0 Oakland Rush Yds Avg Lng TD FumL J. Fargas 22 179 8.1 48 0 0 Buffalo Code: [b] NY Jets Rush Yds Avg Lng TD FumL T. Jones 12 35 2.9 12 0 0[/b] Denver Rush Yds Avg Lng TD FumL T. Henry 23 139 6.0 33 0 0 Pittsburgh Rush Yds Avg Lng TD FumL W. Parker 23 126 5.5 24 1 0 New England Rush Yds Avg Lng TD FumL L. Maroney 19 103 5.4 19 0 0 As you can see with those numbers, our running game is horrible even in games against the teams that Chad has played against. What exactly is he doing to help the running game?
It got much better with Pennington in 02 because other teams didnt have a crystal ball and realize that Chad had one the weakest arms of any qb ever to suit up in NFL history junc. Your arguement above is grasping at straws. If you cant see that other defenses have a much easier time preparing for the Jets then most other teams, its a useless discussion. Ever wonder why the Jets do not use the play action nearly as much as they used to? Wasnt Chad one of the best play action qb's in the NFL at one time? The reason it is used less is that defenses see him do it and laugh to themselves. "oh...you are going to pass not run? and exactly where are you going to throw the ball...5 yards down the field". He has single handedly taken an art form and destroyed it because it fools not one person.
I don't think arm strength is as important as you guys make it out to be but you guys told me that our running game would be better w/ Clemens b/c his stronger arm will not allow D's to cheat against the run so why have we run better w/ Chad? why was Jones below average against Bal? why was Curtis better in '02 after Chad came in for strong armed Vinny? How come Curtis had a better YPC w/ Chad in 2004 than stronger armed Quincy Carter? That's nice. we debate sports on here, if youare not mature enough to handle please leave. I bet your friends and family woud be very proud of your post especially point #3. Outside of Fargas the other #s are in line w/ the other teams production, Jones was over half a yard less against Bal when he shuld have been better w/ such a strong armed QB. Oh ok so other teams didn't adjust to Chad at first whichis why Curtis got better w/ Chad. I got it but why did Curtis average 3.8 YPC w/Vinny in 2003 and 4.2 w/ Chad? He also had 3 100 yd games w/ Chad and zero w/ Vinny for a full game. He also had a 100 yd game in the Philly game Chad and Vinny split. The #s that day: w/ strong armed Vinny: 10 carries for 49 yards w/ weak armed Chad: 10 carries 61 yards. Oh and why did Curtis' YPC go up up w/ weak armed Chad 2004 compared to playing w/ strong armed Quincy Carter? I look forward to the next excuse.
The Jets as a team had a higher YPC rushing the ball in 01 with an old washed up Vinny then they did in either 02, 03, 04, 05 or 06. The 06 team which is the first team Chad started every game had a terrible YPC and very close to the 05 team with Brooks as the QB. You and other Chad supporters also discount that Chad is any different post shoulder surgery from pre shoulder surgery. While Chad never had a great arm, his arm is significantly worse today than it was prior to his first shoulder surgery which didn't happen until after the 04 season.
We know we didn't have the horses at RB last year, remember Leon had a 4.4 YPC last year but he wasn't the primary RB and an older Curtis had a higher YPC in 2004 w/ Chad than he did w/ Vinny in 2001. Once again thouh in 2002 Curtis had a higher YPC w/ Chad than Viny, in '03 Curtis ha a higher YPC w Chad than w/ Vinny, in '04 higher w/ Chad than Quincy and so far this year Jones has a igher YPC w/ Chad than Kellen(though obviously it's still early).
Was Curtis our only RB? Comparing one game with Thomas Jones when the O wasn't opened up until after we had abandoned the running game doesn't really mean anything. As you well know, Jones missed the entire pre season and stunk in both games 1 and game 2. Having big yards against a crappy Miami team where Justin Fargas ran for 179 yards and a 6.1 YPC last week really doesn't prove your point. The fact that you even bring that up shows how week your argument is. I have never argued that we would run for more yards with a QB who could exploit more field. It's possible we can't. The one constant of Chad at the helm is our TE doesn't catch many balls. If you have to leave every one in to run even as bad as we are running the ball it means your passing options are reduced as well. I don't know if we would run the ball better with a big armed qb who could release the ball quickly? I do know our O is attacking a very tight area of the field and even with a great completion % it takes us so long to go down the field thatany mistake leads to a lack of points and we aren't scoring points even with Chad having a very high completion %. Now where you and I agree is I do think the Jets have a multitude of problems but where we disagree is I think Chad has a terrible arm and he knows it and his decissions because of it limit our ability to score points because the D can keep everything in front of them fairly close to the LOS. If Chad is also turning the ball over and making rookie mistakes, there really is no reason to stay with him. Old, bad arm and a lack of confidence isn't a formula to lead a rebuilding team that is at least a couple of years away.
Curtis was our main back, what are backups did is prettyt much irrelvant since Curtis got 90% of the carries. The O wasn't opened up until after we had abandoned the running game? Nice excuse. I don't disagree w/ any of that, I do think Jones is still hobbled a bit BUT it was folks like you who insisted our running game would get better by removing weak armed Chad for a stronger armed QB and in KC's 1 start that wasn't true and in Chad's career that hasn't been true. That's my only point in this discussion.
So why didn't you say that instead of interjecting bullshit to try and prove a point? And when are you going to stop with the folks like you BS? You really seem a tad on edge. Relax junc.
Let's just ignore the fact that the Ravens have a top 5 rushing defense, and the Bills have one of the worst rushing defense in the league.
I really don't know how it's "in line with the other teams". The production numbers show otherwise. In the 3 other NE games, the opposing RB's line averaged out to 3.37 YPC as opposed to 3 for Jones in our game In the 3 other Miami games, the opposing RB's line averaged out to 6.38 YPC to Jones's 4.4 in the Jets game. In the 3 other Buffalo games, the opposing RB's line averaged out to 5.66 YPC to Jones's 2.9 in the Jets game. You said earlier that the Baltimore opponents averaged 3.4 YPC to Jones' 2.8. The facts above show that the disparity of RB production for the Jets compared to the rest of the league is in fact much worse when Chad is behind center. I'm not sure what you're basing your claim on.
You still don't get it, you guys have been telling me how much better the run game would be w/ Kellen and that clearly wasn't the case. You have also told me how the ground game would be better w/o Chad and that has been proven not to be the case.
In Clemens' first start while Jones was still injured this was proven? Granted he had a big game the following week so maybe the injury wasn't so bad but he was listed on the injury report (questionable I believe?). He (Clemens) was clearly not settled in until the second half and we were pretty much in a pass only situation at that point. Nothing was proven in that game, Clemens included. He did look good in the 4th though.
a strong armed qb helps, but he still needs holes to run thru, during the raven game he actually had a few nice runs when he got a hole
