And I'm telling you that based on the numbers, the Jets ran better when Clemens was at QB. Sure, they were under-performing based on league averages against the opponent, but those averages were worse for the Jets against Chad's opponents. I don't understand where the miscommunication is. The running game is also horrible because of he offensive line, which is why it's performing badly regardless of who is QB, but it appears to be worse with Chad. The numbers said so.
But w/ his strong arm Jones ran worse against bal than Bal's opponents who had weaker armed QBs. That was your point and it's been proven incorrect. Outside of Fargas: Portis vs. Miami: 17-98, 5.8 Barber/Jones vs. Miami: 29-121, 4.2 Jones vs. Miami: 25-110, 4.4 TJ had a better avg. than the Dallas Duo. NE: Jones 14-42, 3 YPC LT: 18-43, 2.4 YPC Lynch: 20-74, 3.7 Watson: 13-55, 4.2 He had a better YPC than some guy named LT and wasn't far behind Lynch. Against Buf was the only game where his #s were way own but was that Chad's fault or the fault of the CS for abandoning the run so early?
Again, how can you seriously prove anything based on Clemens first start? http://forums.theganggreen.com/showpost.php?p=657025&postcount=179 Jones' numbers from that game do not prove anything.
You are right, this argument is based on the irrational Chad bashers saying how much better the running game wil be w/ stronger armed kellen in the game. His one chance that was proven wrong, since 2002 when Chad plays the Rbs play better while when stronger armed backups play the running game suffers. My point has been proven.
Since 01 when Hackett was brought in the O has been designed around Chad and that has been true every game since 02 regardless of the OC. Again your opinion is based on your opinion, you have proven nothing, par for the course.
What has been stated on here is that if a strnger armed QB was in there our running game would be better b/c D's couldn't just stack the box against the run. That has been proven incorrect, it doesn't matter who the offense was designed aound. that is what folks like you were saying ad once ain you have been proven wrong. Keep spinning though if it makes you happy.
That never was my point. My point is that Jones ran better against the Ravens relative to the production of the opponents against that same defense than he did against the 3 teams that the Jets played when Chad was starting. That is not disputable. Also, I'm not sure why you took away Fargas from the stats. It's not like Fargas is Jim Brown and distorts stats every which way. If that horrendous team can run all over the Dolphins, what does that say about our running game? By taking away Fargas, you have cherry-picked stats. Again, are you trying to say that Jones' 2.8 ypc against Baltimore, which was 0.6 ypc less than the league average against Baltimore is worse than Jones' 3.66 ypc in Chad's starts which is 1.70 ypc less against the league average of the 3 defenses that Chad started against? This is basic.
It is? against Rudi Johnson, Edge and jamal lewis Bal gave up 3.4 YPC, Jones had 2.8- how did he do better? Jones w/ Chad did better against NE than LT and better against Miami than barber/jones. ou guys are under the misguided notiont that Chad is holding this offense back and that he is holding the running game back and that is clearly not the case and it's been proven since 2002. Fargas had an incredible game, it happens now and then. The other backs weren't so much better than Jones or any of the other backs their teams faced but fargas #s were off the charts. you are using all runners, I am using the top back. If a WR runs a reverse for 20 yards that doesn't mater, if a backup RB fools a D and gets a nice gain that doesn't matter. We are dealing w/ the pimary Rbs for this discussion. You also don't take into consideration garbage time where the runners that had "success" agaist NE raised their YPCs to respectable #s. The bottom line is Chad is not holding back the running game.
You haven't proven anything since the Jets have never run an O for a QB other than Chad since 01 including 01 when Vinny was the QB. If you need further clarification, I agree with you an O designed for Chad run by a stronger armed QB will not open up the O.
Then why was Curtis able to run for 1500 yds and 4.5 YPC w/ vinny when the O was designed for Chad? try again.
First of all, if we're using the top running thing, why is it Barber/Jones? Use Barber. he was the top runner. And yes, Jones did do better than LT, but he also did worse than the other 8 runners in this comparison in the games that Chad started :lol: So how exactly is the running game better with Chad? Yes they were, but I don't understand how you're discounting all the stats by saying something like, "the other backs weren't so much better than Jones". I'm not sure where you're getting that as the numbers totally don't show that. If you're taking out Fargas, can I take out LT? I don't know where you got this idea from. Do your research. I've been using the top runner for all of my stats. That's what you started doing so I kept with that. If fact, you're moving away from that yourself by bringing in Julius Jones in the Dallas game to help pad your case even though Marion Barber destroyed the Dolphins :lol: I'm still waiting to figure out what this means. You've been trying to generalize every point that has been made in this discussion. Jones averaged 1.7 ypc less relative to the opponents in the games that Chad started, while 0.6 against Baltimore. Which one will you take? This isn't calculus
In 01 even with a WC O we ran for more YPC as a team than any year Chad was the QB. A well designed O for Vinny might well have given us a much higher YPC? Since neither of us have any conclusive data it's merely conjecture on both of our parts. The idea that you proved anything is simply nonesense.
Barber and Jones are a duo, they split carries. he did? he averaged 4.4 against Miami while barber/jones averaged 4.2- isn't 4.4 better than 4.2? If LT averaged .4 YPC and ran for 6 yards I'd agree we could take it out. Jones is the top back in Dallas. They are a duo, I combined their #s, if used as individuals then barber did better an Julius did much worse. Jones had ore carries in that game so if we tak the top back then julius ran for 2.1 YPC and TJ's 4.4 is obviously better, right? You guys have made the statement that the running game will be better w/ a strogner armed QB, I ahve proven that to be false. Whetherit's this year, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 or 2006. When Chad plays the runnng game is better and we usually win. Curtis' YPC was higher in 2004 han 2001. You said b/c the O was esigned for Chad that we couldn't run well w/ Vinny since it wasn't a goodO for him and that was proven wrong. I look forward to the next excuse.
This is insane. You're trying to get me to say that 4.4 ypc is greater than 4.2 ypc, but you can't even get yourself to say that -1.7 ypc is worse than -0.6 ypc :rofl2:
