But you see that's where you don't understand the game. It's not about stopping it or not stopping it. It's about execution. If Miami executes the play better than teams execute the their D, than Miami has success. See the wildcat is no different than the counter tre the Redskins would run or the sweep the Old Packers use to run. Everyone knew it was coming, but no one could stop it, why? Cause the Redskins and Packers practiced it so much they perfected it and they simply dominated whomever they played just by not allowing defenses to stop them. All football is, is who executes the best. Not who has the the most plays or figures them out. It's about execution.
Vick lost two games his entire college career. White also played in a gimmicky offense. Pat White was a very, very good college quarterback, but he's not more talented than Michael Vick. ...I...don't understand the game? Okay.
I may be pretty new here, but MrElectric might be one of the most knowledgeable posters I have ever seen, so saying he doesn't understand the game of football is laughable.
Well when you start your young career as a football player most likely in Pop Warner, you're taught the fundamentals and one of the first things you're taught is the importance execution, it's a constant theme the rest or your career playing any oragnized sport. It can't be stressed enough, and "MrElectric" never mentioned the word execution, he made it seem so simple for every team to follow a game plan and succeed, it doesn't work that way, not in real life anyways. If a team isn't committed to something than you can disrupt their formation, but if they're serious about what they do, like the Pats and the spread offense, it's not so easy to just do what the Giants did to them in that SB loss on a weekly basis.
"DolphinJeaux", This isn't Pop Warner. This is professional football - these guys don't need fundamentals. They are pro football players because they are the best of the best at fundamentals. In high school, you can beat teams by running or should I say "executing" a play correctly because the talent isn't always top notch...but when you get to the next level, there are freakish athletes - guys that can make ridiculous plays. Scheming the most important thing in professional football. Out coaching the opposing side is what it's all about - if a good DC knows what kind of bullshit, gimmicky Wildcat play is coming, he's going to draw something up that will destroy it - plain and simple. Bill Belichick, who I fucking hate, is one of the best schemers ever. He's always one step ahead and that's what it takes to win in this league.
Listen, guy, I don't want to get in an argument with you, because I know your post history and you'll never admit you're wrong. So I'll just let the much more knowledgeable posters show you how wrong you are, and then laugh as you don't accept it.
Vick only played two seasons of College football, he left after his sophmore season to join the NFL. However his career statistics both passing and running pail in comparison to Whites, Year Comp Att Comp % Passing TD INT Carries Rushing TD 1999 90 153 58.8 1840 12 5 110 580 8 2000 97 179 54.2 1439 9 7 113 636 9 As you can see Vick never even came close to the rushing statistitics Pat had in college and as far as passing, Vick and Whites numbers were similar,but Vicks completion % was a precursor to his pro career, never reaching the 60% completion mark as a college or pro player. Those are huge and very important statistics for a QB. Vick is simply a below avg passer and has been his whole career. Infact the best Vick could manage as a pro was a paltry 56.4 completion %, that's a pretty bad number for a starting QB. Vick was a runner, not a thrower. IMO Pat White is both and better at both.
That's just flat out wrong, the biggest differnece between good teams and bad teams in the NFL is fundamentals.
That's not what he meant, he meant that everyone already had the fundamentals down to automatic...if not they wouldn't be in the NFL. And really? The biggest difference is fundamentals? That's just plain retarded.
Oh OK apparently the Jet fans have a mgic bean that makes them right no matter what the facts tell them.
There's a reason or two why Michael Vick went #1 overall and why Pat White went in the second round. Pat White is being viewed as a Wildcat quarterback - a gimmick system that is destined to fail at the pro level. He's not being viewed as a franchise signal caller, because he's not one. Look what Michael Vick did in 2004 and then try to tell me that he wasn't a good quarterback - not a passer - a quarterback.
Ok, then why do players need coaches if the fundamentals are so prevalent? Do you have any idea what OTA'a, mini camp and summer camp are all about? Their about running, blocking, tackling and hitting....basically they're about the fundamnetals of the game, it's why many of the veterans hate attending, because it's redundant, but it's also important. Are you serious with this opinion? Every team pulls talent from the same pool. Every team has the same cap space. Every team has the same set of rules. Basically the league wants to create a competitive atmospher among the 32 teams. Being as the teams are all so closely monitored, there's only so much teams can do to beat their competition and the number one thing teams can do to imporve is improve their fundamentals. Seriously, this is football 101. And it exists at every level of this sport.
Reagrdless how Vick and Pat white are viewd it comes down to production. Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round Vick in the first, both are QB's who would you rather have on you team? Vick who was drafted number 1 overall or Brady the 6th rounder? What was the reason Brady was a 6th rounder and Vick was number 1 overall? Do you think drafting is an exact science? You can't even compare where Vick and White were drafted because honestly, it's irrelevant. The Falcon. and Vick were basically a the wildcat without the overloaded line. Vick ran more than he threw basically a glorified RB. the Reason he was slightly more successful out of the shotgun was because he offered a just the a little more ability to throw the ball than Ronnie Brown in the wildcat. Brown threw one pass out of the wildcat, there was no option. However by drafting White, you get a player that had a great deal of success both throwing and running out of the shotgun formation. Miami's Oline has also improved so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Miami run just out of the shotgun as well as the wildcat formation with White in 09 Miami could line up in the wildcat and then audible to a shotgun formatin and vice versa. Basically creating all kinds of problems for defenses. Bottom line is the wildcat was one dimensional last year and this year it will be multifaceted.
LOL, Mike Vick is a talent the nfl hasnt seen and probable wont see in a long time.. To compare Pat White to him is kind of silly.. Too be asble to run a 40 in the 4.2's and have a cannon for a arm.. Vick's arm strength was top notch with the deep ball..
^this is the chewbacca defense....... when you are talking about college production in terms of draft position, its completely relevant.
feelthepain. I think you should call the Dolphins and demand a job. Because they really need your knowledge in either the scouting staff or the coaching staff. They need it. They really really need it. I think they would hire you on the spot.
I posted Vicks and WHites college numbers and White was more then 2 times more productive than Vick, yet Vick was drafted higher, so much for the "production" being a factor. Vick was just one of those players everyone went gaga for and when he reached the pros, was nothing special. Sure he could run, but he was a starting QB and he just simply can't throw a football effectivelly.
This has to be the most assinine statement i've ever read on this board. You're cutting down one of our most knowledgeable posters because he didn't use the word "execution"?! bahahahaha!! I bet you sleep with a motorcycle helmet on. :lol:
Are you serious? 1. Vick was a two year starter, while White was a four year starter...double the production makes sense. 2. I just want to throw this stat out there for you: as a redshirt freshman, Vick led all of college football in passing efficiency...but he can't pass, right? He has the third highest passing effieciency rating of all time...as a first year starter. 3. To say that Vick is nothing special is just flat out stupid. He is one of the most amazing players to ever play the game. The fact that he was involved in dog fighting and animal cruelty shouldn't blur his image as a player. 4. As a redshirt sophomore, Vick almost led the Hokies to a National Championship, but he was injured and couldn't play against Miami...VT lost...ending their hopes of an undefeated season. Without Steve Slaton, White and the Mountaineers didn't win the Big East, even with White being a four year starter. 5. If the NFL MVP award wasn't all about statistics, Michael Vick would have beat out Peyton Manning for the award in 2004. I don't give a fuck about how mediocre Vick's stats were, he put that garbage Atlana Falcons offense on his back every week and carried them all the way to the Conference Championship game. Screw the MVP, White won't even make the Pro Bowl ballot...unless you vote for him 10 million times. 6. Listen, I'm not some Vick homer, like you are with the Dolphins. I know he wasn't the best passer in the world and if he comes back to the NFL, I think he'll struggle...but don't say he wasn't a great player, because that's so incredibly wrong.
