Our 2021 Draft debacle

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by ouchy, May 1, 2021.

  1. KY Jets Fan

    KY Jets Fan Well-Known Member

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    The Eagles wanted to trade up to #3 but would only do so for Wilson (link). Again, I've never seen a report saying that the Jets received an offer from the Eagles for #2 but it's easy enough to read between the lines there. I'll concede that your first paragraph makes logical sense even without a report to corroborate. However, it's still speculation, informed speculation to be sure, but speculation nonetheless.

    Wilson's pro day was not when everyone suddenly mocked Wilson to the Jets, that happened long before. Wilson's pro day definitely seemed to cement our stance as an organization though. However, I vividly remember these trades happening during Wilson's pro day, when John Lynch was in attendance. Kinda kills your theory doesn't it? Meaning the SF/MIA deal was probably in the works prior to the pro day considering it happened during Wilson's pro day.

    Also, why do you keep saying they could've gotten 2 for the same price as 3? In what world would that have been acceptable? There's about a 400 point value difference between 2nd and 3rd overall which is the equivalent of a mid 2nd round pick. Maybe both PHI and SF felt that price was to high? Maybe JD was asking for another 1st and 2nd and both SF and PHI said, "no thanks!". Certainly plausible.

    Regardless, all this doesn't reinforce your argument. It's speculation on your end and is no more accurate than anyone else's speculation. You may think the Eagles and 49ers have had covert meetings/calls with JD that hasn't been leaked in the press, despite all these other reports leaking, about trading the 2nd pick but that doesn't mean it HAS happened. That's all I'm trying to say, not saying it couldn't have happened because it's certainly within the realm of possibility, but so is everything I've been saying and unless we hear it straight from the horse's mouth, we'll never know.
     
  2. PennyandtheJets

    PennyandtheJets Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! I think having a channel has helped me state my opinion a little more clearly. :D

    Go Jets!
     
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  3. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    When I supported the trade for Watson, I was willing to give up the #2, one of our two 3rds this year, one of our two firsts next year, and either one of the two 3rds in 2022 or Darnold, so no, I valued Watson higher than Wilson.
     
  4. K'OB

    K'OB Well-Known Member

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    Objection, your honour, this is conjecture
     
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  5. The Waterboy

    The Waterboy Well-Known Member

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    Did you even bother reading what I posted? Obviously not

    Schefter said they started at 5 and worked back which would make sense if you feel your guy will be available at 5 or 4. Why would you trade up to 2, giving up more draft capital, if you did not need to move that far?

    So yes, my post makes sense. You assuming they wouldn't have had to offer more to the Jets makes no sense. Do you think they offered the same picks for the #5 pick?
     
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  6. patleahy

    patleahy Well-Known Member

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    @ouchy I have to ask, overall, what do you think of the actual talent that the Jets drafted AFTER Wilson? Do you think Joe D got some talented players at least?
     
  7. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    Yes we go some good talent.

    Tucker is a strong addition at a position of need and should help stabilize that side of the line. I'm not a fan of the trade up, which is repeating the same mistakes of the past. After Sam's draft nobody cared about giving up the 2nds because we "got our guy". It was only later that people realized what we lost. Were still in the draft honeymoon phase so people will believe what they want, just like in 2018. Those who think we have enough future capital to finish building a serious contender are stretching it a little.

    Moore is a great prospect and should be a big part of our future. I look forward to seeing him develop. However, contrary to popular sentiment, he is not going to help Zack's development that much. Slot was not a position that needed upgrading ATM and Crowder will be a far bigger security blanket. I feel like we had a chance to really build out the line and missed it this draft. That would have helped Wilson succeed much more.

    I like Carter's video and have hopes of him becoming a #1. Didn't know much about him before but he seems like good value for pick 104.

    I don't have a lot of opinions about the rest. If we end up with more then one day one starter from them things will go better then I believe.
     
    #147 ouchy, May 4, 2021
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
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  8. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

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    This place has gotten pretty insufferable of late. A lot of whining/trolling from so many different people.

    I didnt think the draft was a debacle at all. This was the year to take a QB for them. They had the second pick, and they're flush with picks this year and next. Wilson wasn't the QB I would have taken, but he's a strong prospect nonetheless, and seemed coveted by other teams. Darnold had regressed hardcore and was due for a nice raise if kept him and exercised his option. I blame none of this on Darnold, he was set up to fail. It sucks, but it is what it is. Logistically, it just didnt work out for him here, maybe a change of scenery will help.

    I'm always in favor of trading back over trading up, but I'm surprisingly OK with the trade. I'd feel differently if they were hurting for draft capital, but given how many picks they have this year and next, I understand moving up for a player you consider to be a top 10 talent in the draft. Plus, it shows that the Front Office is dedicated to not screwing up Wilson like they did Darnold. Next year I would think they'll be in prime position to move back with one of their picks.

    I have no complaints about taking a WR at 34. Once again showing they're committed to Wilson. Moore seems like a beast, and it may make Crowder expendable for a 3rd/4th rounder next year.

    I have no complaints about taking RB in the fourth round. Carter should step in and be a day 1 contributor. I cant ask for too much more from a 4th round pick.

    I cant legitimately grade the rest of the draft. I know exactly zero of the players and what they bring to the table. All I can say is I probably would have picked another offensive linemen among all those DB. They were clearly using the back end of the draft to throw darts at the secondary. Hopefully one or two hit. Seems like they did ok with Bryce Hall and Javelin Guidry last year. Maybe JD has an OK eye for late round DBs.

    I am pretty damn pleased with how the draft turned out. At the very least the team showed they're committed to Wilson and the offense.
     
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  9. bicketybam

    bicketybam Well-Known Member

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    Am I to assume that you were in favor of trading back in the draft when we took Darnold? Not now, but at the time. Did you have a preferred QB if you wanted to stay put?

    As far as Moore goes, he's way more dynamic than Crowder. Have you watched his tape? And he has hands of velcro. That was an insanely great pick.

    You are going to be a lot of fun this coming season. I can see it now.
     
  10. major33

    major33 Well-Known Member

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    It really seems like you didn't know much about any of the college players. The only thing that would have made you happy is if we kept shitty Sam and traded down for a gazillion picks, players you seem to not really know anything about. I wonder how much college football you watch. Not much I presume?

    Why is Moore not going to help Zach's development? Have you watched Zach play? Have you watched Moore play? Zach likes to get out and move around, & with someone who has the speed of Moore, it will allow Zach to improvise and wait until he gets open, because he will. Speed kills. He can also hand the ball off to Moore. Moore also catches balls over the middle. Moore can catch shovel passes and with his speed break long runs. Moore can be used in the short & long passing game plus as a runner coming out of the backfield. That's a triple threat. We have nobody like that.

    You know nothing about Carter which you admitted. You like the AVT pick but hate that we traded up to get him. Hmmmm Who was the OL that you wanted? Which second or third-tier talent in the mid to late rounds did you want to play OG?

    Our first 4 picks are home runs. That's 4 starters right there. Players that JD wanted, not players that he had hoped fell to him. He pretty much went and drafted all the players he wanted and resisted the temptation to acquire more picks. He got the players he targetted. So if it doesn't work out, it's on him. He could have done the trade down thing and got multiple picks, but he had the guts to move up and then stay put in round 2 since that is a player he loved. That is putting your job on the line.

    Once again, it's all about hating the Zach Wilson pick. Everything else does not matter.
     
  11. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    I had my opinion, you had yours. You'll notice I don't attempt to make up reasons why you have your opinion. Or misrepresent your opinion as something you didn't say. I'm sorry that my different opinion offended you so much. Please excuse me. I didn't realize you were that fragile.
     
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  12. Gremlin

    Gremlin Well-Known Member

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    Well we'd of won the past 50 odd Superbowls if we could draft with the benefit of hindsight.
     
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  13. patleahy

    patleahy Well-Known Member

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    nah, the Bears still would have won Super Bowl XX, Gremlin. ;):)
     
  14. major33

    major33 Well-Known Member

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    I'm just challenging you on your words that you wrote. Unless someone else wrote it, I don't understand how you could say I'm misrepresenting your words. Did you not talk about Moore being someone that won't help Zach much without even giving a reason? Did you not say you don't know much about these draft picks? How could you not know about Michael Carter?

    I see you putting words in people's mouths when you say they didn't care we gave up 2 seconds to move up for shitty Sam. I cared. I did not want to trade up for him, but I sure as hell wanted to trade up for someone like AVT who we could not have gotten in round 2. But you liked that pick which we traded up for. Huh? Which magical OG did you want with all of these picks? You never really specify the players you would have taken but instead just talk about picks picks and more picks. That is an easy way to avoid putting yourself out there and criticize those who do have a plan.

    I made my thoughts on the draft known beforehand as to who I would select and what I would do. I was putting myself out there as were a lot of others. I really have no idea who you would have taken, except for someone with the last name picks. But I don't seem to see anyone with that name who got drafted.
     
  15. Pepsiguy5

    Pepsiguy5 Well-Known Member

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    I know this is the age old argument to bicker over and there is no way to prove one way is right over another but since you asked what I'm basing this on.

    It is my true and complete belief that A) If you lined up Darnold behind even an average offensive team you would get at least average results and B) if you lined Zach Wilson up behind the absolute shit Darnold was given to contend with the last couple seasons especially (Gase, no OL, no skill positions, can't even snap him the ball successfully a lot of the time etc) the results would have been more or less equally horrible. Maybe Zach would have done a little bit better here or there, maybe not, but also I feel like Zach would have likely been broken in half at some point. Darnold got pounded quite a bit himself and he's built about 10X more solid than Zach appears to be going just on looks.

    My conviction will be even stronger if Darnold does decently for Carolina this season. We shall see.
     
  16. KY Jets Fan

    KY Jets Fan Well-Known Member

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    I get it, Sam was dealt a pretty terrible hand, no arguments from me on that one. But look around the league, why can other quarterbacks produce in less than ideal situations and Sam gets a pass?

    Sam's 2020 stats: 217/364(59.6%) 2,208 yards 9TDs 11INTs in 12 games.

    Gardner Minshew had a much better season while only playing 9 games last season; 216/327(66.1%) 2,259 yards 16TDs 5INTs. Do you think Jacksonville had THAT much better of a situation than we did last year?
    Drew Lock had a better year than Sam; 254/443(57.3%) 2,933 yards 16TDs 15INTs in 13 games. I'll concede that Drew probably has a better situation than Sam but Drew also wasn't a first round pick.
    As much crap as Tua has gotten this offseason, even he had a better season than Sam; 186/290(64.1%) 1,814 yards 11TDs 5INTs in 10 games.

    I'm glad the team is seemingly doing for Zach what they never did for Sam, but this situation is just as much on Sam as it is on the team. In year 3, we can't have our #3 overall draft pick have the worst QBR (40.1) in the league and feel all warm and cozy about keeping him around. Even if Sam had just been a slightly below average QB last year, he'd still be the QB. I hope Sam does well in Carolina (but Carolina does bad, we have their 2nd rounder!!) and truly wish him nothing but the best but let's not act like he's blameless in all of this.

    Also, let's not act like Sam is Cam Newton. Sam's only got about 1" and 10 lbs on Zach (6'3" 225lbs vs 6'2" 214lbs). If Sam can withstand these sacks, I feel confident Zach can too. Hopefully he won't have to with Becton and AVT anchoring his blind side!
     
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  17. Jason MacIsaac

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    At this point what we need to realize is that Sam is gone and not coming back. It's time to move on. Douglas wasn't going to tie himself to a QB that didn't had "any" success in the NFL, as well as one he didn't pick .That would be beyond neglectful to do, regardless what support was given to him. Douglas drafting Wilson reset his clock and allowed him to maximize the value of the 20 and 21 drafts. Now people complain he didn't draft a CB? Look at the 2022 CB crop. The Jets were never going to fix all their problems in one or two drafts, they appear to have a plan in place to do so by the start of the 2022 year.
     
  18. JetFanInPA

    JetFanInPA Well-Known Member

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    Obviously the results won't be in for some years, but as it stands now, I loved this draft. They chose their QB of the future in what sounds like a thorough evaluation and alignment with FO and CS and used the next four picks to build around him. I initially thought it was a lot to give up for AVT, but have cooled on that. If he becomes an upper echelon LG it'll be more than worth it. WR wasn't a "need", but Moore looks like the type of player this offense has been lacking for a long time. And I love their Day 3. After Michael Carter, they loaded up on the two most outstanding positions of need on defense and these CBs and to-be LBs sound promising and good scheme fits. If even just one of those CBs and one of the LBs end up as starters it will have been successful IMO. And with that huge UDFA contract to Dunn, might as well be 4 drafted CBs.
     
  19. alleycat9

    alleycat9 Well-Known Member

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    and we traded away assets to get to this draft and make the big splash in this draft. if you look at that it makes it tougher to stomach. i didnt think it was a terrible job, i dont like the qb and that was one they have to hit on or they will look like fools. im usually not a drop out of the top spots if you dont have a qb because they only come around so often. but we surely mucked it up... even going back to losing out on the top draft pick.
     
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