Ok,i see what you mean. Yeah,i guess by the rules he can. My personal opinion is that a guy who doesn't play in the field and couldn't get out of the way of a turtle,shouldn't get consideration. BUT,I'm not sure if any team has a player as valuable to them as Ortiz is to the Sox. without him they'd be duking out with the Devil Rays for the bottom spot
ARod's team also never had a chance that year because of the pitching. Boston had huge expectations, are in the midst of a ridiculous tailspin, and Ortiz is saying he should be MVP.
Exactly. This to me is like a fan who says "Derek Jeter shouldn't win the MVP because he's gay with A-Rod." There are so many good reasons why Jeter shouldn't win the award, so why not pick one of the valid ones? Ortiz just comes off as a dumbass trying to guilt voters into making him the MVP as the window for his team to get into the playoff race is rapidly closing. Why is he having a pity party for himself because poor Big Papi has to hit between Loretta and Ramirez? This whole incident cost me a lot of respect for Ortiz. If he cares enough about the award to all but declare his team dead and lobby the media for it then he certainly doesn't deserve it.
Ortiz comes off looking horrible here.... #1 he is basically waving the white flag for the season by saying he won't get it because they won't make the playoffs. Last I checked his team wasn't eliminated... wonder how his teammates feel about that. #2 Wonder how his team feels about his unfavorable comparisons to the Yankees line up. #3 Campaigning for an individual award in the midst of a team season is a bad move.... Papi really screwed this up. PS Jeter isn't even the MVP of his team (Giambi) he shouldn't be the MVP of the league.
What an amusing thread. Ortiz is a shmuck. I don't care how many times people argue he is the "nicest guy" in the game, his ego is bigger than the wall behind Manny. Speaking of Manny, Bosox fans can say it until they are blue in the face, but Ortiz DOES get MANY more pitches to hit because of Manny. Ortiz feels he deserves it more than Jeter why? Because his team leads the division? Oh wait...His team swept the Yankees in a critical series a couple weeks ago? No, that can't be it...It must be his superior baserunning skills, or at least his gold glove fielding ability, right? Crap, maybe not... So he complains that ARod won it simply because of his bat on a bad team? Well David, you seem to forget he was the best shortstop in the game at the time. Perhaps you also forgot that he was the only thing bringing fans into the seats? Very few guys have that kind of effect on attendance. ARod in Texas, Bonds in San Fran, Big Mac, Sammy Sosa. I don't see you filling up seats. Your fans show up to see your TEAM, not just YOU. I agree that Varitek is the Sox MVP. He changes the team by being in the game. The second guy on the Sox list should be Papelbon, the third Manny. Ortiz comes in fourth in my book as far as Sox MVPs. As much as I would like to see Jeter win the title, I do think someone like Dye does deserve it more, if they make the playoffs. If they don't, then Jeter gets my nod. It's not just about offensive production. It's the Most Valuable PLAYER award. Not MVB(atter).
That's not true. They had above league average attendance before he got there, experienced a slight spike his first year and then had attendance fall the next two consecutive seasons to the point where they were below league average for the first time on ten years (02,03). Then when he was traded to the NYY the Rangers attendance went back up over the MLB average again (04). Incidentally attendance has no effect on MVP voting. http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/rangatte.shtml
Speaking of Manny it's pretty suprising to me that he's never finished higher then 3rd in the MVP voting. He has had some amazing seasons. 99 is the year you can say he absolutely deserved it, but Alomar split the vote somehow and Pudge ended up sneaking in. In terms of sheer production you're not going to see much better this side of Bonds, 131 RS, 165 RBI and a .333/.442/.663 line.
People are acting like Ortiz just decided to come out after a game, hold a press conference, and announce that he should be MVP. I haven't seen it, but I am fairly confident a roperter probably asked him something about his chances for the MVP and who he thought should win. If you notice, he goes on to say he would vote for three or four other guys, he just doesn't think Jeter should win it. No, probably because he feels (and is 110% correct in feeling) that the Red Sox are worse off without him than the Yankees are without Jeter. Therefore he is more VALUABLE to the Sox. I don't think he's complaining, just citing precedent. Again, I haven't seen it, but I bet some reporter asked him what he thought his chances were for winning with his team losing. The attendance in Texas went up only 31,000 or so total in A-Rod's first year there, and declined in each of the next two years. He was NOT bringing people to the ballpark. As for Ortiz not, that's not entirely true. Not Ortiz alone, but Manny and formerly Pedro brought a HUGE Dominican presence to Fenway. I don't know. I'd put it Manny, Ortiz, Varitek, Papelbon. Varitek has been dreadful at the plate this year, and I don't think a closer is ever the MVP of anything. Without being put in the position to pitch the last inning with a small lead, they become non-factors.
Giambi is far from the MVP of the Yankees--I know that you are going to trot out his great on base % and OPS, but the bottom line is that he's got more RBIs than hits (not good, putting the ball in play is more important than statisticians give it credit for) and he's a 100% defensive liability at first base (I don't think there's any defense for that.) You can argue 'till the cows come home about whether Jeter is the league's MVP (I personally wouldn't vote for him) but there's absolutely no rational arguement that Jeter isn't the MVP of the Yankees.
I'll go even further than that. People underrate Manny not only with his bat, but his fielding. Maybe it's because left in Fenway is small, area-wise, but that is a very hard, if not the hardest, left field to play in the majors. And he does it VERY well. You combine his above average fielding skills at his position, with his great hitting stats, not to mention his teammates seem to adore him (regardless of what the media would like everyone to think, he looks pretty damn comfortable in the dugout during games) and you have my definition of a MVP. (And that is hard for a Yankee fan to admit.)
My bad about ARod's effect on attendance. I knew he increased it, I didn't realize it also went down on his watch. (That probably had more to do with him not being the savior the fans thought he would be.) devil, you make some valid points. The Red Sox are worse without Ortiz than the Yankees are without Jeter. As for the Dominican push, notice you named 3 players. My point was that he doesn't fill seats on his own. As for your list of most valuable to Boston, I disagree. You watch more games, so I'll give your point some credit, however, I wouldn't rank Ortiz over Varitek. Manny, sure, but not Ortiz. Varitek is a leader on the field. Manny and Ortiz let their skills do their talking during a game. And I think you are devaluing the closer position. It's become extremely important in today's game where no one seems to be able to go more than 7 anymore. As far as Ortiz's comments, I don't think he looked for the opportunity to push himself. However, his comments were wrong. Unless he has been blatantly misquoted, he should have kept his mouth shut. When Jeter is asked about the MVP or the batting title, he says he doesn't give a damn. He wants to win rings, not awards. That's how a team leader answers a question like that. And a MVP should be considered a leader of his team. BTW: I am aware that attendance is not a mark considered for the MVP award. My point was simply that in the total picture of ARod that Ortiz painted, he left out enough details to invalidate his argument. The biggest of which is the fact that ARod was a superior fielder at the time.
I literally laughed out loud when I read this post. Saying Giambi is "far from the MVP of the Yankees", and then totally discrediting the two most important offensive categories is just hillarious. I'm not saying either one is definitely the MVP of the Yankees, but to pretend that Jeter is the team MVP and it's not even close is just stupid. The Yankees are also a better team overall when Giambi plays 1B, so the defense argument is useless.
Jeter is the MVP. The only reason you think other wise is beacuse he is Derek Jeter. Thats it and thats all.
It's so great to have all class to root for in Jeter. He's all about WINNING, you never here him complain or campagin about individual awards not to mention taking a shot at his teammates while doing so. I also remember ARod saying Jeter had it easy b/c of the lineup around him yet ARod has been far from his Sea-Tex days here. Stop whining and just play.
Manny is still clutch, manny has probably been tebest hitter in the game this decade. ARod is not clutch, jeter is definitely better than ARod. you haven't watched the yanks the last decade, have you?
If you want a guy to put up great #s that are mostly meaningless then ARod is your guy, if you want a guy to put up very good #s and produce in big spots then jeter is your guy. it's all about preference
