Those figures include post season. You call it meaningless because it doesn't fit the picture you're trying to paint. The Colts aren't perennial superbowl contenders without Manning.
You casually noted he threw it late after making the excuse that the defender made a great play. SF did not have a chance in the 4th. They scored a late TD to pull w/in 4 then dallas went right down the field and scored another TD. Young did his best peyton manning imitation. It was a very difficult pass to catch, it could have been caught but it would have been a great catch. It was NOT a good pass. It would have been 52-53 yd attempt if they didn't gain another yard. Instead of going down the field he could have picked up 5-10 more yards and made it a chip shot for Vinatieri but he chose to go downfield and got burned as usual. Brady had a bad game in 2005 at Denver. That was his FIRST playoff loss and he only has 3 total playoff losses. He earned the right to have a bad game. For manning he consistently doesn't step up. if he did he'd earn the right to have a bad game w/o being bashed too. Peyton faced SD w/o LT and gates the week before- how did that work out?
He's played 187 reg season games and 15 postseason games. you don't think those reg season games would skew a # like that? You might be able to get stuff like that past the average poster but you aren't getting that by me. Of course the Colts aren't contenders w/o manning but does that mean he can't play well in postseason? he plays a HUGE role getting them there but once there he always plays a huge role why they don't win.
The last time the Colts faced the Pats in the playoffs, who won? That was the first time the Colts had the better defense than the Pats. They also had the better kicker. You can't say Manning is holding his team back from winning multiple superbowls while giving him credit for being the reason they have a chance to win multiple super bowls at the same time. It just doesn't make any sense.
I put it in there. You don't even acknowledge game situations. When you pull within 4 you have a chance to win the game. The pass hit him on the hands and was not a rocket as you have suggested. Well...you are a Brady lover. Brady has been known for not getting the job done and leaving it up to the kicker.
In the manning postseason era and Brady postseason era the Indy D has allowed about 2 PPG more than NE and if you take away the Jet game the difference is miniscule. He has had D's good enough to win w/ if he would just have played his reg season style. 2006 Pats D: 2 PA, 6 YA 2006 Colts D: 23 PA, 21 YA Colts playoff losses points allowed by the D: 1999: 19 2000: 17 in regulation 2002: 41(it's hard to win giving up 41 but it's impossible to win scoring ZERO pts) 2003: 22 2004: 20 2005: 21 2007: 28 2008: 17 in regulation Outside of the 41 pts allowed(again they were SHUT OUT in that game) the D allowed points that the Colts O should have been able to outscore the opponent. the '07 SD game 28 is alot BUT when the QB throws 2 critical INTs deep in opponents territory that cost his team pts each time ina close game it's hard to fault the D.
You have a chance w/in 4 but you need the ball and when they got the ball back they were down 10. I don't know of any 10 pt scoring plays, do you? It was high and hard to a seldom used RB. I HATE Brady but I respect his greatness and he's known for being clutch which he has been time and time again in big games throughout his career unlike his counterpart in Indy.
Posteason gets weighted more heavily than the reg season. i don't care what he does against the texans in September but when the games are big in January and he's falling on his face that matters. Both INTs were the result of poor passes.
They both were. The 2nd one wasn't the worst pass in the world but he threw it high and hard to a RB who didn't play much. It would have been a tough catch, it was a bad throw.
It was a catchable pass and not a bad throw. The first one was a bad throw. But the second one was not and it should have been caught. The only people that would consider that a bad throw are those like you, who have an axe to grind against Manning. To call this throw a bad throw is a big, big reach.
I don't know why I'm getting into this fray but: 1) Although you don't come right out and say it, you are trying to suggest that the Colts "D" has been close to as good as the Patriots "D" in the playoffs and that just isn't so. The difference is actually about 3.5 points per game and over what ammounts to be about a full season that is significant. 2) You want to take away that game where the Colts let up 41 points as an aberration. Of course, that also makes the numbers look closer. However, you should also take the Pats worst game (38 points) so they end still a little over 3 points per game difference. 3) I saw the pass in question (it's amazing that you can see highlights from two years ago with the touch of a button - isn't technology great) and it should have been caught. It was in the RB's hands, and it didn't look like a "rocket" to me. I'd say that that pass gets caught 75 - 80% of the time. 4) I'm not even arguing the point that Manning is a better QB than Brady. I think that Manning hasn't performed as well in the post season as his regular seasons. I just think that Brady has had more help with winning his SB's. I think that while Manning has probably had a better supporting cast on offense (up until the Moss / Welker aquisition - which hasn't helped in winning a SB yet), but Brady has had the better defense. Also the Pats has the historic edge in the kicker. BTW on instance where Manning did lead his team into FG range but was denied was a 48 yard FG miss in 2005 against the Steelers.
Since when is the fact of how often a RB is used a criteria to determine if a pass is good or not? If that was Addai there would it had been an OK pass? It was a catch that is made more often than not - IMHO.
1) it's less than 2 PPG, when peyton throws an INT for a TD that doesn't count against the D. Actual points allowed by Indy D in regulation: 1999: Ten 19 2000: at Mia 17 2002: at NYJ 41 2003: vs. Den 10, at KC 24, at NE 22 2004: vs. den 24, at NE 20 2005: vs. Pitt 21 2006: vs. KC 8, at Bal 6, vs. NE 27, vs. Chi 10 2007: vs. SD 28 2008 at KC: 17 294 pts allowed by the D in regulation. 19.6 PPG Actual PA allowed by NE D in regulation: 2001: vs. Oak 13, at Pit 17, vs. SL 17 2003: vs. ten 14, vs. Indy 14, vs. Car 29 2004: vs. Indy 3, at Pitt 27, vs. philly 21 2005: vs. Jax 3, at Den 27 2006: vs. NYJ 16, at SD 21, at Indy 38 2007: vs. Jax 20, vs. SD 12, vs. NYG 17 309 pts allowed by D in reg. 18.1 PPG 2)fair enough. 3)Ctachable ball but a difficult catch. He was just 5 yards from the RB and as the seldom used RB turned the ball was high and hard. It was a bad throw. 4) Brady has played ONE full season w/ the type of offensive talent that Manning has played w/ his entire career and in that season he broke records and led his team to a 16-0 record and a SB app. I'm glad you brought up that 2005 missed kick. Manning was give two HUGE gifts in that game. In the 4th qtr trailing 21-10 he threw an INT to Troy Polamalu that was clear as day on relay but the officials reviewed it and gave the ball back to Indy. Then after getting the ball 1st and 10 from their 18 w/ 2 1/2 to play they went backwards and gave Pitt the ball on downs at the Indy 2 w/ 1:20 to play. The next play jerome Bettis fumbles and not only does Indy recover but they return it to near midfield w/ over a min left and Indy had all 3 TOs. Indy had the ball 2nd and 2on the Pitt 28 w/ :31 secs and 2 TOs. What does Peyton do? Dioes he move the chains and get his K closer? of course not, he takes not one but TWO shots downfield and misses on both setting up the long FGA which was missed of course. Thank you for bringing up that game.
Still would have been a tough catch but Addai is more used to catching the ball out of the backfield and might have been better able to make the difficult catch but either way it was not a good pass. It was a rocket from 5 yards away and it was not on target. Not the worst pass ever thrown but not a good pass and he gets the blame for that one. I'm sure he'll pass the buck like he always does but that's on the veteran QB to throw a better pass in that situation. You can't turn it over down there and cost your team points.
By the way, I am loving this debate. It's been a while since I've been involved in one of these. I thank you guys for participating even though I disagree w/ you.
Ive just watched the int again and Manning did not throw that ball too hard and it hit Keith right in the hands. It was catchable and a good pass. Period
