The course of action during that play did not allow Peyton to make a play. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? The Pats offense only put up points! For a team that averaged over 30 a game why is that a) acceptable and b) even considered to be enough to win. The Pats offense failed the entire team in that game. Do you honestly think your posts are any different. I am watching you defend Brady to the death for putting up 14 points and never give Manning ANY credit. They started at or inside their 10 SIX times in the game and they had 12 drives. They were at or inside their 10 every other possession. And their best starting FP was at their own 33. Its not like they were knocking on the door every possession. Two wins in the one season they were together. You changed from Playoff wins to SB wins. It's hardly an asinine example to note that Brady has had the benefit of great talent that works underneath the coverage for him to dump the ball off to for years.
He calls the plays, he needed to call something else and if not he needed to make that play work. Not every game is a shootout, sometimes you win low scoring games but he gave his defense the lead in the SB in the final mins but they couldn't hold on. They only averaged 22 a game in 2003 yet scored 32 to win the SB. Sometimes you have to score alot to win and other times you don't. Brady made plays! He did something, he led his team to the go ahead points in the final mins. Manning has NEVER done that in a playoff loss. if he had more enbdings like that I wouldn't place most of the blame on him. You are complaing about Brady putting up 14 pts in one game while in playoff losses Peyton has led his O to an AVERAGE of UNDER 14 pts. They had 5 2nd half possessions and 3 of them started at least at the 20. STOP w/ the excuses please. I'm not changing anything. Any way you slice it Brady comes out on top in january. Whether playoff wins, SB wins it doesn't matter. you are grasping at non-issues b/c you have no case.
I missed this somehow They may have been near the end of their careers but they showed no signs of slowing down. Novacek had his best season and was an All Pro Haley had 10.5 sacks in 13 games and was an All Pro Moose was the same as he ever was before And Tuinei was an All Pro Where's the ripe for the picking? Piss poor example. Shorter by 10 yards and had a lot less time on the clock. Even still Denver's defense came up with a stop.
Keep putting it all on Manning. It shows your lack of understanding how football is played. If the TE picks up Dobbins he would have had a chance to make that play work. The defense is the only reason they were in that game because the offense failed them. STOP blaming the defense. Brady dumped it off to Welker to make the plays. BRADY DID NOT MAKE THE PLAYS ON THAT DRIVE And they weren't able to get anything going. It's NOT ALL ON MANNING! I have no case? Brady's TEAMS come out on top becasue they have a great system and players that fit the system well. He's BENEFITED from great defenses and a CLUTCH KICKER!
And your excuse for Brady that sometimes you win games by scoring only 14 points is a lame pathetic attempt to cover for his complete failure as the QB of a record breaking offense in the Super Bowl.
Rivers just go picked off by Kelvin Hayden who made a great jump on the ball. But I'm sure that's all Rivers' fault and no praise should go to Hayden for making a great play
Harrison just fumbled as the Colts were marching down the field. Somehow that's probably Peytons fault
You just didn't watch that Cowboy team. Nothing more than Barry switzer needs to be said. They squeaked by in that SB against a team not as good as those Bills team that they absolutely dominated. '92 and '93 could not be beat, '95 was beatable- Favre had a golden opportunity and failed. Much like the '07 title game a Favre INT sealed GB's fate. would you rathaer go 70 yds or 80 yds to score a TD? They had alot less time but still had PLENTY of time. They were in denver territory w/ 1:11 to play and 1 more time out. They had an eternity. The only lack of understanding here is by the fantasy football lovers that praise peyton and favre. he had all game against an 8-8 team to put poins on the board and couldn't do it, then he needed to convert ONE 1st down to end the game and he couldn't. The defense blew the game just like they almost did against SL in SB XXXVI and Carolina in SB XXXVIII but this time Brady wasn't left enough time to rescue them. It doesn't matter what he did, he got the job done. you don't get extra points for throwing it downfield. These statements are so moronic, I know you know football better than you are showing in this thread. Of course it wasn't on Manning, when Indy fails it never is. It's always someone else's fault. How many Championships has that great system won? O've posted it a million times- look at B's record w/ and w/o Brady. Tony Dungy made a conf title game w/o peyton manning, BB never made it that far w/o Brady. NE was a sinking ship until Brady rescued them in 2001. if not for Brady BB would be a DC somewhere right now. It's not an excuse it's a fact. Against carolina in the SB they had to score alot more than they averaged and he led them to those points to win the SB. I love how you harp on ONE example(where Brady led a lte TD drive to take the lead) but ignore all the failures of manning leading his O in postseason losses. Again, show me ONE example where he led a late scoring drive only to watch his D lose it. The problem is you can't b/c no such game exists. No that's not his fault but the 2 critical INts were and if he doesn't throw them they most likely win. Stop reaching w/ these excuses to protect Peyton. Answer one question- how can you be so critical of Brady for ONE game they lost which he led an 80 yd TD drive in the final mins but never criticize Peyton for all the playoff losses where he never did anything late in games to help his team win?
That Cowboys team was just as dominant as their other teams were. Pitt wasn’t the offensive team Buffalo was, but Buffalo played POORLY in those two Dallas SBs. Favre’s INT in the Championship Game gave the ball back to Dallas who then marched right down the field for the clinching TD. GBs defense (the same one you said carried the Packers) didn’t come up with the stop. Dallas had a great offense and a great defense that did not slow down at all in 1995. Denver’s defense made the stop. Favre didn’t throw a pick. Favre didn’t fumble the ball away. Denver’s defense held them when they got into Denver territory. Give them some credit. Ha. I hate fantasy football quite frankly. I am just not obsessed with finding fault in Peyton Manning like you are. The fact is that there was not a play to be made on the 3rd and 2. They were inside their own 10 and Peyton made the right choice by NOT forcing a throw and then got sacked. They played an 8-8 team that was playing really well. And if you think the Chargers were a team that played like an 8-8 team then you clearly don't get it. The defense was the ONLY reason the Pats were in that game at all. BECAUSE BRADY FAILED He did his job. That is correct. BUT the reason they marched down the field was not because of Brady. Give credit to the correct people and we won’t have a disagreement. I said it wasn’t ALL on Manning. If you want to misrepresent what I said (which you’ve done several times in this thread) then that’s your prerogative. BB is a defensive coach. He did not develop the Pats offensive system. Brady manages their system very well. I’ve never disputed this. But he doesn’t win without their defense and a possible HOF kicker. GIVE THEM SOME CREDIT. This ONE example shows how you contradict yourself over and over again. I understand that Brady needed to score more in the Carolina game to win, but he didn’t have the luxury to sit back and do nothing during the other 58 minutes of SB XLII. It’s nothing more than an excuse used by you for his failure in that game. I would venture a guess to say that even Brady would admit he let his team down in that game. Yes, they were critical INTs. But the second one was not on Manning. The ball hit Kenton Keith on the hands and was NOT nearly as hard of a throw as you have exaggerated it to be. I have not “never criticized” Manning for the Playoff losses. I am fully aware that he has struggled at times. But I’m also not ignorant to put every loss all on him. Nor am I ignorant enough to put all of the Pats wins on Brady. Football doesn’t work that way. I don’t read box scores and play by play sheets the next day and make assumptions. I watch the game and make my observations that way. I seriously wonder if you actually watch the games. I haven’t been saying that as some sort of joke. I know you go to all the Jets games so my assumption is that you don’t get home in time to watch any other games and just go by the stat sheets. Which would also explain why you put 100% emphasis on the postseason. But winning is done by teams as a whole and not by an individual. The 80 yard drive that the Patriots had near the end of SB XLII was a bunch of dump off passes to Welker while the Giants were playing deep zone coverage which allowed Welker to gain yardage after the catch.
Buffalo played poorly in those 2 SBs b/c those Dallas teams were unstoppable. The '95 version was really good but clearly a notch below. Favre's INT was a backbreaker, they had the ball w/ a chance to take the lead and he threw the INT that led to the icing TD. Favre had a great chance against Denver, he didn't deliver. How come when peyton or favre are stopped it's b/c of a million other factors but Brady drives 80 yds for the go ahead TD and it's his fault they lost that SB? I'm obsessed w/ the truth. I hate that people just follow what the "experts" tell them to, I dig deeper. I have watched every manning playoff game and he's struggled(to be kind) in just about every playoff year. If he was doing everything he could and teammates were letting him down I'd have a completely different opinion but that has not been the case. The Defense lost that game for the pats just like they tried in 2 of their other 3 SBs, this time Brady didn't have enough time to rescue them. So we giove credit to favre and Manning if their teams score but not Brady? Got it.:rofl: Where is the success w/ this system? where are the Championships? Brady would have AT LEAST 2-3 SB titles if he played on Indy this decade. He doesn't just manage the game, he's the best QB in football. Where am I contradicting myself? In some games they are low scoring and you don't need 30 pts to win, in others they are shootouts and you have to keep scoring. he gave his team the lead in the final minutes something Peyton has NEVER done in a playoff loss. Both INts were on manning, they were both bad throws. I don't put every loss on him but he has been most responsible for their failures. It's like ARod and the Yanks the past few years, it wasn't all on him but he was most responsible. Amaingly enough he plays like he is capable of and the yanks win the WS just like Manning played like he was capable of in that 2nd half against NE in '06 and they won the SB. It doesn't matter how NE scored, they scored.
I think everyone acknowledges that an INT was thrown. It was a great play by the defender and Favre threw the ball late. The defense still didn?t come up with a stop. A notch below does not equal Ripe for the picking and the 1995 Dallas team WAS not ripe for the picking as you have suggested ? without any validation or evidence to prove that they were. This is funny that I have to keep explaining it to you? Brady got them ONLY 14 POINTS when they averaged WELL OVER 30 per game. If you were obsessed with the truth then you would be more honest about actual events of the games. But instead you put every loss ALL on Manning which is untrue. Brady lost the game for them. The defense did their job. The Giants only scored 17 points. Brady and the Pats offense did not do what they had done all year. They failed the entire team. You want to blame the defense, but they gave up exactly what they averaged all year long. The offense played far below what they had done all year long. Give credit to where it?s due. You do not do that. The Colts don?t dink and dunk. Brady would not have been successful on the Colts. They needed 20 to win and he couldn?t even get them 20 when they averaged OVER 30 a game. Keith should have caught the second one. It hit him in the hands and was VERY catchable. That is not on Manning.... You actually believe what you write when you say you don?t put every loss on Manning but right above you put both INTs and the game on Manning. The second INT was not Manning?s fault and Harrison fumbled while the Colts were marching down the field. I don?t see you mention that at all.. You?re right, it doesn?t matter how NEW ENGLAND scored. The question is how they got down the field. And it wasn?t on the arm of Brady, but on the legs of Welker. There?s a big difference.
A year ago.... I watch my Jets lose at Oakland and this year they crushed Oakland. and don't get me started about freezing my ass in the snow in Seattle. Fuck last year. lol
Of course it was a great play by the defender. Any time that Favre or manning get picked it has to be a great play by the defender b/c those guys never make mistakes. In 1992 and 1993 no team had a chance to beat dallas in the 4th qtr of any playoff game, in 1995 both GB and Pitt had a chance to beat them in the 4th qtr. That team was nowhere near as good as the first 2. I have to keep explaining to you that he led them 80 yds in the fianl minutes to give his team the LEAD in the Super Bowl. How come you didn't comment on the breakdown of the Colts losses showing what he led them to and what their season averages were? You seem obsessed w/ it in this example for some reasn, I wonder why? I am 100% honest, some people don't like that. They would rather make excuses for Favre and Manning. Brady would be great in any system, he does what needs to be done whether it's dinking and dunking or throwing downfield. He got them the lead in the final minutes of a Super Bowl. He threw a rocket high to a RB from 2 yards away. It was catchable but a very difficult catch, the throw need to have a little more touch on it and it wouldn't have been picked. He cost them that game w/ both of those INTs. Take those away and Indy gets at least 2 FGs- they lost by 4 so please do the math. Isn't it smart football to take what the D gives you? Manning would have been forcing the ball down the field and they wouldn't have scored the TD.
It was a great play by the defender and Favre threw it late. You would know this if you watched the game. In 1992 NFC Championship Game Dallas was up 17-13 going into the 4th Quarter and were down 24-20 at one point in the 4th. SF had a chance to beat them. So what’s your excuse for why Brady did NOTHING all game long and was lucky the defense kept them in the game for the one 80 yard drive they were able to put together (by dumping the ball off to Welker) You exaggerate your remarks and DON'T give 100% truth, that’s what people don’t like. You are definitely NOT 100% truthful. Why didn’t he put together any kind of scoring threat throughout the game? Because he thought he only needed to score 14 points to win!?! :rofl: You exaggerate how hard he threw the ball. It was NOT a rocket. It was catchable and Kenton Keith should have caught the ball. But you claim you don’t put it ALL on Manning The first INT was at the end of the half. You don’t know they would have gotten three there and the second one wasn’t on Manning. If Keith catches the ball they probably score a TD on the drive. Brady was forcing it down field all game long. Why didn’t he adjust earlier? The dumpoffs passes were the play calls. They were his first read.
So favre threw it late but gets no blame? Got it. If you watched that '92 game you'd know SF didn't have a chance. Dallas was up 24-13 early in the 4th and although it became 24-20 SF never had the ball w/ a chance to take the lead. Brady and the O had a bad game, they didn't have a great playoff(don't forget Brady was hurt) but when the game was on the line he found a way to take them 80 yds for the go ahead TD. I am always truthful, I can't help it if I don't get mesmerized by fantasy stats and the media like 99% of the fans. It was not a good pass, it was a very difficult pass to catch for a seldom used RB. They were in FG range already and had time to get closer. They would have kicked a FG had Peyton not tried to do too much. Brady made plays when he had to. Why do you always ignore the fact that peyton has NEVER led his team to a late score only to watch his D give it up? or the fact that peyton in 8 playoff losses has led his O to an AVERAGE of under 14 PPG. You'd rather harp on one game where Brady didn't score enough even thogh he led his team to the go ahead pts very late in the game.
What's the matter with you? Are you purposely ignoring what I say? I said Favre threw it late. That IS putting it on him. I also acknowledge the defender still made a great play on the ball. I have watched the game and SF was in it and had a chance in the 4th. So there's an excuse for Brady. You seem to always have one for him. If he was able to be healthy enough to dump the ball off to Welker late in the 4th qtr than why couldn't he do it the rest of the game? It was not a difficult pass to catch and should have been caught. It would have been a 52 yard FG. He's not Tom Brady and leaves it up to the kicker. Even though he had Vinateri it still would have been tough to make the three. I suppose I could bring up the 2005 Denver game, his performance in the 4th qtr against the Colts in the 2006 AFCC only guiding them to FGs when TDs would have put it away....wait....You actually like it when QBs gets the team in pos to just get FGs... And the 2007 AFCC was a very poor game by Brady and he was only lucky that SD had Tomlinson and Gates injured and couldn't play.
Interesting article from a thread in the NFL section: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1808 Code: G W ExpW Diff ========================================= Peyton Manning 191 124 92.8 +31.2 John Elway 252 162 134.5 +27.5 Tom Brady 128 101 73.9 +27.1 Brett Favre 291 181 154.7 +26.3 Dan Marino 258 155 129.8 +25.2 Joe Montana 187 133 109.1 +23.9 Ken Stabler 158 103 80.7 +22.3 Johnny Unitas 194 124 106.7 +17.3 Daryle Lamonica 97 70 53.1 +16.9 Jim Kelly 177 110 93.2 +16.8 Steve Young 157 102 85.8 +16.2 Roger Staubach 131 96 79.9 +16.1 Norm Van Brocklin 105 63 47.7 +15.3 Terry Bradshaw 177 121 106.3 +14.7 Dan Fouts 178 89 76.4 +12.6 Randall Cunningham 144 85 72.8 +12.2 Danny White 102 67 55.5 +11.5 Bobby Layne 139 83 71.6 +11.4 Kurt Warner 112 65 53.6 +11.4 ... So the guy who's "holding his team back" is the best ever (by a good margin) at winning games when you consider the number of points allowed by the defense. What a worthless, stat compiling, fantasy QB.
I have never debated peyton's greatness in the regular season. This is a fact you guys cannot comprehend. It is about postseason. So keep brining up meaningless points in hopes that other misonformed fans will see this info and say "see, Peyton is the best". It's meaningless info.
