Not firing Gase now - Could this be Chris Johnson biggest blunder ever?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by LAJet, Oct 17, 2020.

  1. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,998
    Likes Received:
    8,650
    No one is saying Sam wouldn't be better with better surrounding talent and coaching, but just how much better is the question. Sam has been in the bottom third of the league in most of the important QB stats over his career, he's even dead last in some of them. Better talent and coaching aren't going to miraculously turn him into a top 10 QB.
     
    NCJetsfan and Sack exchange like this.
  2. BomberJet

    BomberJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2002
    Messages:
    2,113
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    I agree, we don't know for sure. It's all hype. I'm just going by some games he has played and his athleticism. All I'm saying is don't trade Darnold away unless you are sure you have the #1 sewn up and Trevor will come. If I had my choice and the Jets have other than the #1, keep Sam and get a coaching staff.
     
    Sack exchange likes this.
  3. BomberJet

    BomberJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2002
    Messages:
    2,113
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Just saying, if they don't have the #1 , it wouldn't bother me to keep Sam and get a good supporting cast around him. Gase has to go!!
     
  4. HotSauce

    HotSauce Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    37
    That’s so weird. I can’t understand how his approval rating keeps climbing.
     
  5. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,486
    Your assessment of Darnold is based on what? He has only played for horrible CS and with sub-NFL talent around him. How can you possibly project what he might do if those things were improved? And if they're not, do you really think Lawrence will be able to succeed? I'll go so far as to say that MAYBE Lawrence would do better than Danrold under these conditions, but
    Yes, a GREAT QB makes up for a lot of shortcomings, but he doesn't make up for all or even most of them. Even Peyton Manning couldn't do that as his firstyear the Colts went 3-13, and that was with arguably better talent and coaching than the Jets have. So it's not like you're implying, that we have a choice:

    1. Add Lawrence and that alone will make the Jets into winners

    OR

    2. Add a bunch of quality talent AND a new competent CS to make them winners.

    So, it might be easier to just add Lawrence, but that by itself will not make them winners.
     
    Sack exchange likes this.
  6. Talent wise,w the right surrounding cast & coaching,he can be a top 10 QB.His issues are largely mechanical,specifically not throwing w any sort of base. He needs a system/surrounding cast tailored specifically to him..similar to Roethlisberger. im not sure the Jets are smart enough to figure that out.

    Where I agree there is concern about if hes the guy are 1.He has not been able to stay healthy 2. I dont think hes a great leader.Hes looked dejected at times & seems timid. Not sure thats gonna work for where this franchise is at..
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,486
    How do you know that? Exhibit A offered as proof against that: Ryan Tannehill.
     
    Sack exchange likes this.
  8. Sack exchange

    Sack exchange Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,405
    Likes Received:
    1,803
    Should be 0 %. He is laughing stock of the NFL even with kids. No one in in their right mind would would approve of him and his results! Oh forgot, our CEO does. Doh

    It’s the tank factor!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. Sack exchange

    Sack exchange Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,405
    Likes Received:
    1,803
    I watched the last Tennessee game, hey Tannehill looks like a franchise QB! With Gase he looked like with some flashes. I can see the analogy with Darnold.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  10. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,233
    Likes Received:
    9,922
    I'm open to this. Build up the offense and if he doesn't show much progress in 2021, there will be QB's to be had in 2022. Jayden Daniels is one of them. The new QB would likely be in a way better situation than Sam was in 2018.
     
    ColoradoContrails and BomberJet like this.
  11. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,998
    Likes Received:
    8,650
    Given how Anderson has played this year it's looking like Sam played with better talent than we thought. I'm basing my assessment of Sam on watching every single one of his games since college as well as the stats he's had in his NFL career. I think you'd be surprised at how poorly Sam has been in completion percentage, yards per game, interceptions, TD's etc.

    What basis do you have for liking Sam so much? Most of the evidence we have points to him not being a good QB in the NFL. I realize he hasn't been in a good situation, but his performance has been so bad that I think his ceiling, even with better talent, is still just average.

    I'll say this again also - by the time Lawrence is on the team we will have a different coach and way different roster. We have enough cap space and early picks where that's a pretty sure bet.
     
    94Abraham likes this.
  12. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    2,346
    Why not, look at Tannehill , he was consider trash with Gase. Now look. Sorry i disagree, Sam has flaws that can be corrected with good solid QB coaching daily... he has never got that, at least here. I hope for his sake if they trade him he goes somewhere where they can help him....
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  13. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,998
    Likes Received:
    8,650
    He's been in the NFL for almost 3 years now. If he was going to fix his mechanics he would've done it already. It's not as easy as you imply to change things he's been doing for 15+ years now.

    There is no evidence he can be top 10 with better talent. That is pure speculation and there isn't much evidence to support it. Thus far in his NFL career he's been below average or bottom third in:

    Completion percentage
    Yards per attempt
    Yards per game
    TD's per game
    Interceptions per game
     
  14.  
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  15. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    4,626
    Likes Received:
    7,878
    I get your skepticism, I really do. I recall both of us wanted Sam or Baker in a draft a few years back. Rosen was also part of the conversation, but there was a good chance he would go #2 after Sam. And look at what happened to Rosen since. Look at Mariotta, who was also considered a top prospect, now a sub. This is unforgiving business. Sam, as bad as he was treated, was still given decent receivers last year, and you can see that now with Anderson kicking ass. So, I do think a lot of his poor performances is on Sam himself. And he got even worse this year, just like he did in College after his sophomore year. I think Mahomes would have elevated the Jets. I do think Gase would retard his progress, but he would at least be 93+ rated passer like Tannehil under Gase, and then would blow up when Gase is gone, which will for sure be before next year.

    Like you in the past I still yearn for a top QB. I now have huge doubts whether Sam can be this guy. If he were, even with Gase I expect Tannehil like performance when he was under Gase, which he is no where near. Doesn't mean he is done, but chances are now greatly diminished. Lawrence had just thrown his first interception in a year (to go along with 5 TDs), being a few throws away from breaking Russell Wilson record. Is he a sure thing? No, one is. But he is at this point a much more sure thing than Sam.
     
    NCJetsfan likes this.
  16. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,486
    First, that Anderson is doing better has much more to do with the coaching, play calling, and talent around him than anything else. To say that he didn't do as well on the Jets because of Darnold is plain wrong.

    Second, Darnold has actually had stretches where he looked like a FQB. Do you remember when he came back last year? He had excellent production despite playing for a shitty coach, and behind a lousy OL. So, based on actual NFL performance he has shown he can be good.

    Third, are you privy to what the Johnson Clowns are going to do with Gase? Because if the answer is "No", then you can't say with any assurance that he won't be the HC next year.
     
  17. HotSauce

    HotSauce Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    37
    [​IMG]

    It's at 45% now.
     
    #257 HotSauce, Oct 21, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
  18. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,486
    Despite my many posts here attempting to imbue some rationality to those who are screaming that Darnold is trash and Lawrence is the Second Coming, I'm not even against taking Lawrence if they have the #1 pick. And I'll even go so far as to agree that he would likely do better than Darnold has even if he had the exact same circumstances (which I pray for the love of all that's holy we don't!), and I agree that Mahomes would've done better than Sam (which is why I am STILL pissed off about Macc's failure to draft him!). But...

    1. There is NO guarantee that the Jets will get the #1 pick. If something were as easy as falling off a log, the Jets would find a way to miss the ground.

    2. From what I've seen Lawrence is exceptional, but that said he plays on a team with exceptional talent and coaching. This tends to make players much better than they would be otherwise. That's the nature of team sports so not only is there nothing wrong with this, it's what's SUPPOSED to happen. Except with the Jets it's not usually what does happen. As an aside, this is what set Mahomes apart IMO: he didn't play on a great team and yet he himself was clearly great. Then when he actually wound up on a great team he became even better. Had he wound up on a terrible team (like the Jets), he still would've done better than most other QBs but his stats would've been of the kind that "mediocre" QBs have and all the "experts" here would be calling for the Jets to dump him. Getting back to Lawrence and his situation, I think his physical ability will allow him to do okay even with the Jets, but don't expect him to overcome the lousy talent and coaching and look nearly as good as he does now.

    3. Until he's actually fired, Gase is still the HC and Loggains is still the OC, and they will destroy any QB that comes here.

    4. Darnold may in fact be ruined, but I don't think so. He will never be the pure pocket passer that some want him to be. He is much more like Favre than Manning, and the team that has him should be looking to maximize that ability, not trying to shoe horn him into an offense that actually works against his strengths. If the Jets can get rid of Gase and get a HC that can do that Darnold will do MUCH better, good enough at least to win a SB with the right talent around him. Calls for dumping him for a 4th round pick are ludicrous, but such a SOJ thing to do. If the Jets do get Lawrence, the smart thing to do is to keep Darnold and have them compete. If Lawrence beats him out fairly, then let him start and have Sam as backup that can step in seamlessly. If Sam beats him out, then Lawrence gets to learn behind him like Mahomes did.
     
  19. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,998
    Likes Received:
    8,650
    Excellent production is a huge stretch. I just looked over Sam's games after he came back from mono and he was basically a 61% completion, 220 yard per game guy who would throw an interception and a TD or 2 per game. He finished last year with a lower than 2.0 TD to INT ratio. He was middle of the road.
     
    NCJetsfan likes this.
  20. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,486
    He was middle of the road with shit coaching and sub-NFL talent.
     

Share This Page