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Discussion in 'Draft' started by Kleckobeast, Mar 26, 2021.
Yep window has closed unless someone gets hurt. Ironically Houston may still need him w/o even getting Watson
These are all fair points to consider, but having considered them, here's what I think:
To be blunt, "upside" is another way of saying "potential" which I've heard defined as "Hasn't done it yet". And that concerns me. What if he doesn't reach his potential? Specifically, what if he struggles making second and third reads under a much harder pass rush than he's faced? This was a concern with Darnold, and it proved to be valid.
As to the throwing motion concern, like with Darnold, I had a concern about Sam's elongated throwing motion, which I talked myself out of after we drafted him, but have since seen that I was right to be concerned. I will say that Field's motion isn't as elongated, so maybe it won't be an issue, but I'll still say that a more compact motion is better.
I do love Field's athleticism and big arm, and his courage and drive to win. That Clemson game showed me a LOT, and because of all that I wouldn't jump off a building if Douglas takes him, but I will be disappointed. In the end though, I'll root for him as I did for Darnold (and still do).
And you may be right - Fields might be a great QB, but here's what I look for in a great QB:
1. Big arm
3. Mental processing ability
4. Innate understanding of the game
5. Guts - "Never say die" attitude
6. Ability to make something out of nothing
Wilson checks every one of those boxes, as did Mahomes, and as did Watson - although with his other-worldly arm, Mahomes was the better pick for me. With Fields, here are my questions: will his accuracy hold up when he has less time to operate?; Can he increase his processing ability - was this just a function of the system he was asked to run, or does he actually struggle with this? These are the questions I want answers to before I can say he'll be as good or better than Wilson.
I just ran my "2 cents" up to at least a quarter!
I don't think Sam ever had any trade value in the first place.
Looks like the fish had the balls to do what the Jets don't: Keep your current QB and use that high draft pick to trade down and accumulate picks. Build a fn team
Fish are gonna suck it up, build as good as they can around Tua, and take it from there, right after they take all their new draft cap to the bank.
Jets don't dare follow this...JD too scared to keep Sam and trade down for a fortune. Sam is probably BETTER than Tua so it should be easier for the Jets to keep Sam and trade down, but JD getting cold feet over the Zack nonsense.
Wilson won't have the issues that either will have.
If I said Mahomes, Allen & Herbert had the most “upside” in their respective draft classes, would I be lying?
Did you post about Herbert? The only thing I can recall is you saying you liked Jacob Eason better than Herbert and Tua.
If Wilson has a higher ceiling, then that's even more reason to draft him. Someone who can throw the ball like Wilson is not not just a "one-hit wonder." The weak competition is a nonfactor. There have been tons of collegiate players who played at small colleges in the NFL and are now in the HOF. If a QB can throw dimes and put the ball in tight windows and is incredibly accurate, he can do it at any level.
I hope so, but even future Hall of Famers have screwed up plenty as rookies.
I don’t evaluate QB prospects intently unless we are in the market for one. I didn’t think we’d be back at it this quickly but here we are.
Wilson is different. He’s all those HOFers in one.
That's why I have Wilson at 2 and Fields at 3. What I'd really like to see with Wilson is him doing it again at the college level to prove 2020 wasn't a fluke. But that isn't going to happen, so we have to make do with the information we have.
Perfectly said! Ditto!
So? Wilson may not even play as a rookie, but if he does, and makes mistakes, big deal. He'll learn. He's already much better than Sam and anyone who can't see that doesn't know jack shit about QB play.
Every one of these QBs will have a leap to deal with facing NFL defenses. Wilson's will be the longest. It's so much more than getting the ball on target. While his front is getting rushed by bigger, faster and stronger guys, his targets are being played by speedier, smarter, slyer and stealthier defenders. That's the biggest problem with Wilson and it's one of not knowing how he'll deal with all of it.
No, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say by that.
I didn't watch any of Herbert because last year I knew the Jets weren't going to take a QB, so I can't comment about him. As to Mahomes and Allen's "upside", the difference for me is that when I watched Mahomes he was very accurate, and made crazy throws. You're probably too young to have seen or remembered "Pistol" Pete Maravich who played for LSU and then went on to the pros. Before "Magic" Johnson, Maravich was the magician, doing things with the ball that no one had ever seen before - making no look behind the back passes. That's what Mahomes was like. Allen on the other hand had the elite arm - maybe even stronger than Mahomes - and was big and obviously could run the ball, but his accuracy was a major question mark. Very few, if any, college QBs with that low of a completion % ever improved much once they got to the pros, so Allen's "upside" was a huge reach IMO. Kudos to you for seeing what I didn't, but I also have to say that Allen landed in the absolute best situation he could have, and they really helped him with the scheme and adding talent around him.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I was certain that Mahomes would reach his potential, whereas I wasn't with Allen.
I am talking just about upside/highest potential/ceiling/[pick your preferred jargon] not who believe would reach it. There is a distinction.
Well I'm still not sure we're talking about the same thing, but for me saying someone has the most "potential" or "upside" is too unknowable to use in trying to compare players. We can't predict with certainty whether someone will reach their "upside", or how far "up" they'll go. How much upside did Johnny Manziel, or Ryan Leaf have? So, for me, upside is less important than provable ability that has been achieved to some degree.