New York Jets went to see Colin Kaepernick

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by JetsFan, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    3,348
    JV you have a right to your opinion and I get the hate for Kap. I don't get the love of a monopoly and the defense of the NFL simply because Kap isn't very likable?

    The NFL is essentially a monopoly because it has an exemption from the government. I love sports and at 65 I play at the highest level I can. Kap can actually play football at the NFL level. Kap has to this date never violated league policy. The league clearly wants to keep him out and the fact that they manipulated this workout to get him to sign a waiver that essentially permits the league to continue its blackball of him pretty much says it all.

    Kap is fine financially, Kap is being denied his right to play pro-football for his political beliefs and that is Un-american, un-ethical and simply wrong. As you finally admit above the NFL doesn't want him. The workout wasn't a courtesy it was an attempt to legally blackball him by forcing him to sign a contract.

    You have admitted the league was disingenuous, they don't want him and they would be crazy to let him back in the league without a waiver that allows them to keep him out of the league.

    I think it's okay to hate Kap and not want to see him when you watch a football game. I don't think it's okay to defend the right of a monopoly to collude to keep players who aren't in violation of the league code of conduct policy out of the league because of their personal beliefs and off field work.

    FYI if Kap signs an NFL contract he is bound by the code of conduct like every other player.
     
  2. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    6,245
    Likes Received:
    3,352
    I don't like or dislike kap, but I think you have this all wrong.

    If we take it from the top, kap signed a "mega" 126 million dollar deal with 61 mil guarenteed
    however the number was huge but very misleadling.
    the guarantee was only for a career ending injury, the signing bonus was only for 12.3 mil and if you include that and his 1st year salary, he got paid 13 mil for the 1st year of the contract. after the 1st year the niners were free to cut him any year and not owe him anymore money and their cap penalty would be small due to the bonus only being 12 mil. it was basically a year to year deal based on performance.

    Kaepernick's salary went down $2 million each year if he was not named first- or second-team All-Pro, or if the 49ers didn't play in the Super Bowl the previous season with 80% of the snaps taken by Kaepernick. None of those things happened.so the numbers kept going down and down

    not only that but his play declined. he wasn't playing well at all. during his 3rd season there, kap knew he was going to get cut by the niners in the summer for poor play. so what he did was the protest stuff to deflect and then restructured his deal to make 2017 a player option and then chose to walk away himself early in march so he cna be a free agent during the big spending period. he basically pulled the "you can't break up with me, i'm breaking up with you" then tried to blame it all on the protesting instead of his declining play so he can land another big deal. obviously it backfired, nobody signed him. his play wasn't good and wasn't worth the head ache. so he doubled down to make money off the protest junk. he signed a hidden deal with nike as well. he made almost 40mil in 3 seasons with the niners. he's made little to no effort to get back to the NFL since all of this. he expected teams to come running to him in 2017 and they didn't. then in 2018 he played the i've been blackballed card. now 3 years later in 2019 he holds an open tryout and causes more drama. he should have been knocking on doors when all these Qbs went down and trying out for those teams. the panthers, jets, jags, broncos, steelers, all lost QBs and other teams too.

    The reality is kap just doesn't want to play football. he could go to the XFL right now and would be the biggest star there for the opening season. he jsut wants to remain relevant and sue the protest stuff to make money but doesn't want to play and at this point, I doubt he's good enough. he played so poorly 3 years ago he was gonna get cut, do you think at 32 and 3 years of no playing he's gotten better? he knows he can't cut it but doesn't want to admit it.
     
  3. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    13,248
    Likes Received:
    4,960
    I can't remove my bias towards the situation based on what I think, and neither can you. I guess my disdain for him comes a lot more from the fact that in the world today there is very few ways to escape politics the divide that politics create. Football was one of those outlets. And the entire charade made the sport completely politicized for an entire season. Every time you turned on Sports center, PTI, ATH, Fox Sports, NFL Network, etc. It was centered around discussing the protests.

    Maybe it was a coincidence but there also ended up being a lot of fights that year. The Mike Evans/Saints brawl comes to mind. And it became less about how Josh McCown is playing or who the best receiver in the league is.

    Keeping my own personal political opinions out of this; yeah it ruined football for me for an entire year in a tough personal year for me.

    Regardless. I think if he wanted back in the league he really could've tried to make it work at the this workout and toed the line. I don't blame him for not doing so. I probably wouldn't have either. But because he decided not to, I don't feel bad for him and his lack of opportunity.

    The NFL deemed he was bad for business. He WAS bad for business. And he instantly polarizes the franchise he goes to.

    It doesn't really matter whether you think it should or shouldn't matter that he knelt. Or it should or shouldn't have been as big of a deal as it is/was because in reality it was a massive deal.

    For a top 5-10 QB in the league, it would've been worth it. For a bottom 10 QB, teams didn't want to deal with it. And I get that.

    And I also don't think three years removed from playing he can just drive back in and be ready to go. He hasn't read a defense in three years.
     
    #203 Jonathan_Vilma, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
    azhar80 likes this.
  4. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    3,348
    The reason you're confused is you made that all up. The reason Kap opted out is public knowledge along with his stats in his final year.
     
  5. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    6,245
    Likes Received:
    3,352
    yes it's public knowledge they were gonna cut him and planned on doing it in the summer instead of the start of free agency. he opted out so he could be a free agent when teams had money. he thought he'd get a huge deal and nobody signed him. it backfired. Also the contract he signed with SF was such a shitty contract for him. he should be pissed at his agent for it.
     
  6. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    8,180
    Likes Received:
    4,906
    Can Kap play "at the NFL level"? He hasn't demonstrated that in nearly 4 years. He could have opted to join the AAFL and demonstrate his ability, remove that doubt and change the narrative to his advantage. He chose not to.

    And the part about "his right to play pro-football" is silly. Nobody has that right.
    He does have the right to freedom of speech. The NFL has no obligation to give him a platform to do that.

    Could the NFL handle these things better? Sure they could...but they don't have to.

    It's their ball.
    And that's something Colin Kaepernick never understood.
     
  7. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    3,348
    How did it backfire if he was going to be cut? He was blackballed it didn't matter when he hit FA. The NFL settled because of that.
     
  8. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    3,348
    It's their ball? Monopolies are illegal in the USA. Their exemption comes with restrictions. It's their ball within the law. Anyone who is good enough to play pro-football and is not exempt because of league rules has the right to seek a contract to play pro-football and should not be discriminated against for any reason.
     
    Dierking and Ralebird like this.
  9. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    6,245
    Likes Received:
    3,352
    the contract thing wasn't a backfire. the backfire was he felt he could make more money on the open market. he wanted out of his contract with the niners because it was a shit contract. but he didn't realize that his declining play and his headache/media circus around him, would mean nobody wanted him. he wasn't blackballed. he jsut wasn't worth the headache to teams. hell the ravens came damn close to signing him until his GF started making racist tweets about the NFL at the same time. no way it's a coincidence. kap is playing childish games pretending he wants to be back when he doesn't. he's just using the nonsense for profit and attention. he was offered a deal for the CFL or AAF or one of those leagues and turned it down because he said he wants 20 mil a year. He's making unreasonable demands because he doesn't want back in. it's obvious to anyone with 2 brain cells or more. If he really wanted back there is so many things he could have done to get back in. talented players get a million chances in the NFL. he knows he lacks the talent at this stage to be anything more then a backup and instead of owning it he'd rather play these games.
     
  10. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    6,245
    Likes Received:
    3,352
    it's not a monopoly lol there are tons of football leagues. obviously not ones that are as popular or pay as well but it's not a monopoly. the NFL doesn't have a monopoly on football. it's like saying mcdonalds has a monopoly on fast food burgers because they are the biggest and most well known brand. kap could play football if he wanted to. he was offered contracts from other leagues and turned them down. most players are happy to go play in those leagues to earn a chance back into the NFL. 2 players from the defunct XFL league actually made it back into the NFL after the league folded due to their play in the XFL. and the NFL never turns down talent. every team is trying to win and wants an edge.
     
  11. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    5,572
    Likes Received:
    3,341
    Okay. Last time.

    I never said Kaepernick was not making money from Nike. And you know that. You said he "profited" from the entire scenario. In order for him to have profited his income since he played would need to be higher than what it would have been if nothing occurred. Despite repeated requests you have failed to support that contention which you simply repeat ad nauseum.

    The contract and release that the NFL produced was a business agreement. The fact that it was unacceptable to Kaepernick does not eliminate its existence nor indicate he "spit on it" but rather, like any contract to be executed, he was looking to have more acceptable terms.

    Your characterization of the NFL's proposed workout as a "courtesy" is, once again, strictly your opinion not supported by facts. It may have been required by the settlement to end the collusion suit, details of which have never been released. It may also simply be a publicity stunt by the NFL to show how accommodating they have been; acceptable to those who are quick to take sides and slow to look for the truth.

    Striking here is your claim that the NFL's actions here may or may not be legal but that is acceptable to you.

    So be it.
     
  12. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    5,572
    Likes Received:
    3,341
    One need look no farther than the New York Jets to believe that Kaepernick can play at the NFL kevel when compared to the quarterback contingent used so far this season.
     
    Biggs likes this.
  13. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    13,248
    Likes Received:
    4,960
    Ok I've made my point several times and your refuse to acknowledge that he indeed is making more money on endorsements than any other player in a similar situation. That's the claim. I've clarified. You don't want to believe it and want to cry crocodile tears because he'd be making more in the league. You're right. But he's not in the league. And he's making more money through endorsement deals from his time in the NFL than any other non Pro Bowl or Hall of Fame player is.

    He was looking to have more acceptable terms from an organization that wants nothing to do with him. Why would they offer more acceptable terms of they don't want him in the league anymore by way of collusion which is everyone's claim? They wouldn't. They don't want him. They won't bend for him. He does nothing but hurt the league.

    No. I think the NFL set a trap for him. It was disingenuous. They said here's a tryout, on our terms. You want to play football? Be a good soldier and let's make this all about football, Kaepernick because that's all you contest that you want. He said no, I don't like the waiver, I want the venue completely open to the media so we can make this the circus it should be, I want this, I want that. Oh and by the way I'm not going to respond as to my attendance, but instead drag this horse and pony show to a nearby high school.

    2/3rds of the league said ok fuck this guy. 8 out of an expected 24 teams showed up. That should tell you all you need to know about any franchises interests in bringing this to their team.

    So the NFL said ok, Kaepernick. We don't really want you in the league anyway so go do YOUR OWN thing how YOU want it and see how that works getting back in the league.

    But you don't understand this because you only see the poor multi-millionaire. Not to mention what a hypocrite. Go read his big ad campaign. If he plays for the NFL again he didn't really end up sacrificing everything.

    Don't forget that the Broncos tried to trade for him in the 2016 off-season before he was cut, if he took a paycut. He said nah.

    I have no idea why people have sympathy for someone who is completely fine with not playing football. He's just trying to build his brand by using his war on the NFL as a platform. And the NFL decided to let him embaras himself without having to do all too much.
     
    GasedAndConfused likes this.
  14. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    8,180
    Likes Received:
    4,906
    I would love to see the Bucs give Kaepernick a shot.

    Kap has got to be better than Jameis...right?

    Arians is the perfect head coach for a social justice warrior.
     
  15. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    5,572
    Likes Received:
    3,341
    Swell. I don't know the figures but believe that Kaepernick has probably made more endorsement money than Ed Reid, the only other guy I can think of who may be considered to be in a similar situation. You could have said that a week ago instead of digging in your heels on your claim that Kaepernick profited from the entire situation. I also fail to see that as any compelling argument to support the actions of the NFL.

    All the rest of what you write here simply reinforces my opinion that you are okay with any machinations or manipulations the NFL exercises in regard to Kaepernick, whether legal or illegal. I disagree.
     
  16. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    13,248
    Likes Received:
    4,960
    Dude you fucking replied to multiple posts where I said the same thing!!!!!

    Ed Reed is a Hall of Famer. Kaepernick never even made a Pro Bowl.


    Why would any organization want to keep anyone around that hurts their bottom line? I don't blame any organization for ridding someone that hits their wallet by using THEIR platform for political reasons.
     
  17. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    8,180
    Likes Received:
    4,906
    I never said he wasn't good enough...just that he hasn't shown it.

    That "workout" was nothing more than tossing a football to some friends...it proved nothing.

    If he kept it about football, he'd still be playing in the NFL.

    But he's chosen to make it about something other than football...and that's where it doesn't matter if he's got talent or not.

    Money and talent is not the issue.
     
  18. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    8,180
    Likes Received:
    4,906
    Just an aside...

    Colin Kaepernick has had an endorsement deal with Nike since 2011.

    In September 2018 Nike re-upped to make him the face of the brands 30th anniversary campaign.

    Not bad...

    [​IMG]
     
  19. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    13,494
    Likes Received:
    12,010
    that's misleading/not entirely true. the NFL has a labor agreement with the players. They are obligated to follow that. They can't tell their member organizations to not sign Kaepernick because he expresses opinions. that's why they settled in Kaepernick's lawsuit.
     
  20. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    13,494
    Likes Received:
    12,010
    well first, the idea that he hurts the NFL's bottom line is something that you have completely made up. I think it needs to be proven before we acknowledge it as anything more than your opinion

    It's my opinion that controversy helps the "bottom line."

    obviously Nike agrees with me, and disagrees with your opinion. They are a for profit business that sees Kaepernick as a lucrative asset, you've reminded us of that like 50 times now.

    ---

    if the Cowboys signed Kaepernick tomorrow, by Christmas time, the number 7 Kaepernick Cowboys Jersey would be one of the top selling jerseys in the league. Do you disagree?
     
    Ralebird likes this.

Share This Page