This is really what it boils down to. "Meaningless" is the problem. And if you assign value to nothing other than draft positioning, there's no real convo to be had and it's time to agree to disagree.
It can and does carry over. Idk why you continue to cite that loser Robert Saleh example. Of course, 1 win at the end of the year didn't carry over with him. Thats why he is a failed, fired coach But how about Detroit with the actual coaches we have now, in our building? they were 1-6, they didn't tank away the rest of the year because they are actual football people that wanted to get better. Finished the year 9-8 with a bunch of "meaningless" wins. The next season they are the best team in football. This is the experience of the guys actually coaching our team now. They saw and lived an example where it very much did carry over
I was asking for what YOU deem similar. Because right off the bat, there's not much similarity. It involves a lot of context and nuance. 2019 6-2 over the last 8 games of the season. To say that we should have lost every game from November 30th on is ridiculous and not in the reality. We already had the QB. So what did that cost us? 2020 The only thing that resembles wins costing us anything. We all know how this went. And five years later I don't care at all. Lawrence isn't good and we'd have either moved on or paid him like the Jags foolishly did. If anyone wants to get bent out of shape because they won a playoff game and might win another, that's on them. That does absolutely nothing for me. 2021 We just drafted Wilson, so we weren't going to be taking a QB in the draft. We went 1-5 to end the year with the win coming against the Jags who were the actual worst team in the league. The following year we drafted the OROY and DROY. So that cost us absolutely nothing. 2022 We finished the season 0-6, there's not even a "meaningless" win to speak of. 2023 We finished 3-2 and the only thing you can be upset about is beating the Pats which led them to Maye. Most of that 2023 team was returning in 2024 to play with Rodgers so there's no one that got us to 3-2 that wasn't going to be part of what the franchise thought was going to be a bounceback year. 2024 Week 18 win against the Dolphins... and we moved UP a spot in the draft. We ended up with what looks to be the best OL in the entire class. In none of those situations were we in year 1 of a rebuild with a rookie head coach looking to establish a culture so there is no real comparison to be made when it comes to guys playing well that will be here the following year. And no matter what, outside of one year, the "meaningless win" thing was mostly a facade.
I think Mac Jones is going to look a lot more like Garroppolo did with the Raiders when he left Shanahan than he did in the 5 game sample size he had in San Francisco.
Personally I think they both suck and wouldn’t want either guy to be honest I’d much prefer going after someone like Davis Mills if he is in any way available I’d have to see who any of the other free agent guys are, but as usual, the pickings I’m sure will be slim. I want NO part of Kyler Murray even if he gets cut…I don’t think he’s a leader and he is not the guy you want at QB for a young team…we need like the exact opposite of a guy like this…we need a guy like a Brady who lives breathes and eats football and has an unquenchable desire to get better, not a guy who has to have a clause in his contract to make him study the fucking playbook. Hard Pass. I don’t want Mac Jones either because I don’t think he’s any good…Shanahan is making him look better than he is like he’s done for several other guys already, and I don’t think Jones would be much good here … would he be better than Fields? Yeah for sure because Fields is just THAT bad, but Jones isn’t much good…I wouldn’t hate it as much as the Murray possibility, but I don’t think he’s anything more than a bridge to next year’s draft, so if you have to pay him more than that, I’d pass.
Let's start with your very 1st example. Gase's 1st year, new coach, new program, out of the play-off picture by Sept/Oct. Very similar to what we have today. Went 6-2, which is good if you haven't already shit the bed before then so much, that it didn't even matter for that year. But let's get back to the original question, did that meaningless 6-2 streak at the end of the season carry over with many of the same players returning? Be honest here and admit the truth. It made no difference for the following year. The following year when you talk about Trevor, I get it he was not as great as most projected, but he was way better than QBs we had since. How can you say you don't care about making play-offs or winning a division and hosting a game, winning a play-off game, and again leading the division, if we drafted him and he helped us do it? I don't believe you. You care about winning an extra game when we are not even making play-offs. You are telling me you would not be absolutely ecstatic being there at the stadium clinching the division? Winning a play-off game? I think if it actually happened you would be thrilled, but you don't want to admit it now because we are having this argument. And that's what I want, I want to make play-offs again, win a division, win play-off game, host a game, and then go from there. Finally on Bob, 2023 team won a few meaningless games at the end, losing draft position by beating Washington and NE, and yes handed Maye to the Patriots, while had we lost these two, we could have had Maye. And again big part of the team returned for next year with Rodgers, yet the wins didn't carry over, which is the point I was making. Overall, if we are trying to answer the question did the wins carry over, for both Bob and Gase, the answer is no. Did some extra wins impact us when we did not need a QB - I will concede, perhaps not that much. But for the QB, it did, whether we talk about Maye or even Lawrence, who is at least a passable QB who led their team to some good results, unlike what we had. Positioning makes a huge difference when you need a QB, and the wins at the end are not carrying over to next season as you yourself just showed with Bob and Gase as prime examples.
You keep ignoring that I said I don't even think there are similarities and I pointed out why. I'm not the one that said it's benefitted us in the past, I'm not even the one who brought up the topic. I'm just responding to you saying it hasn't helped us in the past. My entire point is that we've never been in position for it to matter and it's why comparing this to any other season is kinda pointless. That's what my post was explaining. I even asked you to explain what you determined to be similar!
What position is it though? How was Gase's position different after year 1 when he won bunch of games?
Because your entire premise is about needing to draft a QB. We didn't need to draft a QB, we had him. It was undoubtedly a good thing that the QB of the future was playing in and winning games. None of that ended up mattering because the head coach was horrendous and the GM did absolutely nothing to help.
Let's hope so. They had a QB though. I want to get one too, that's really the whole point. We have a support system, but without a QB hard to see success. Let's hope it matters this time, even though I have not seen it in the past. But we still need a QB to succeed.
Brandon Stephens and AZ Thomas are your likely starting CBs next year, they are playing well in wins. AD Mitchell and John Metchie are likely your starting X and slot guys, they are playing well in wins. Membou, Olu and Tippmann are fixtures on your OL for years to come, they are all playing well in wins. The entire special teams unit other than Folk (most likely) will be back next year, they are playing lights out. Breece Hall hopefully comes back and is averaging 4.5 YPC on the season and dominating in wins. Malachi Moore is starting at safety next year and he's playing solid at worst in wins. Mason Taylor is your starting TE next year, he's progressing as a blocker and already solid as a pass catcher in wins. How is this anything but positive?
We are in agreement here - all of this is positive. The big negative really is that we don't have the main ingredient to build a team - QB. And that ingredient is the hardest to get without a high pick.
Hardest, very far from impossible though. History tells us that. And let’s get real, we’ll still have a high pick. I would much rather see an entire roster full of guys progress along with a young coaching staff while creating a culture of winning and being an attractive place to play (we have a lot of money to play with) than sacrifice it all for a shot at maybe hitting on a QB.
I wonder how many top 10 picks over the years we need to win- eventually it'll work out! No, the team needs to learn how to win, which we have not done. Imagine Glenn trying to get his message across in team meetings with nothing to show for it. Remember, we were 0-7, how bad things were. People were talking about firing Glenn and Mougey. How can you root for losses? The Jets have enough ammo to get the quarterback they want, whether it's this year or next. Let's keep winning. The sentiment these last few weeks has been positive, even in the losses to the Patriots/Ravens. When was the last time the Jets had a month of positivity? October 2022, I'd say.
The one thing I've come to appreciate about Jones is the kid has guts. He's a lot more "team" than Garoppalo ever was or will be. That dude is a backup and he left it all on the field in sub for Purdy. Watched every game he played in. Having said that, I also agree we want no part of him. This season's heroics are an absolute full byproduct of being in the Shanahan system WITH Shanahan. He may/may not excel in the Shanahan system with someone else coaching him but he is absolutely a limited system QB and, unless the system guru is the coach, I don't see him being as successful. Could be wrong. If he were smart he'd sign a long term contract to be the 49'ers backup and call it a career there. But he won't. He'll take the "tape" from this year under Shanahan and convince some other team to buy in...to that team's detriment I feel.
I’m 1000% on board with this. Making the talent you have perform at a high level, and learning how to win, is THE Most important parameter, with it, players grow in confidence and motivation, play harder and better. Loosing does exactly the opposite. Having a better draft position to become a winner is a mythical pipe dream, thats why looser teams keep on loosing drafting high year after year, and winners do the opposite with lower picks. The key is to select the right talent for your team, whatever that vision is, develop them and put them in a position to win. Winning is everything, nothing meaningless at all. The most critical parameter, even higher than having the right QB, is first to have the right leadership to build with the right players and show them how to win. We might have that with Moog, will see about Glen.
