Sorry can merge. While writing much of this was confirmed in the Revis thread. only question on contract redo can current prorated bonus be spread over new deal? If a player is traded his prorated bonus accelerates as well to the original team?
So...people want to trade our best player, the best CB to ever play the game, for a draft pick that might not even work out? Right, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
It's just too bad we didn't trade him before last year started as we will never get anywhere near now what we would have then.
The stupidity of this is mind numbing. The game is about quarterbacks. "brilliant GMs" don't win championships by having a balanced team of all around good players. They win by having the best QBs. Every SB winner of the last 7 years was a top 5 QB during that season. This year, you will likely see 3-4 of the top 5 QBs playing in the championship games. Now if trading Revis got you a top 5 QB, then yes you do it. But no one is trading their QB for him, and you aren't getting a top 5 draft pick for him. So all you are doing is trading away the best talent in your history, a guy who actually is worth watching, for some extra decent players at other positions, which will have zero effect on your ability to win a title. Brilliant!
byz, I don't think you missed my posting about this. I made it crystal clear. But then, it looks like you missed it. Let me reiterate. If you give out 1M to kickers and punters (field position is important after all) and then, fill up the 29 players (53 - 2 - 22 = 29) with minimum contract at 500k/yr, you still end up paying 5M/yr contract per each starter, given the salary cap. (Assumption here is that the salary cap will be fixed at $126M. Then, after 2M on kicker/punter, you get to pay 14.5M to the rest - 29/2 = 14.5. 124 - 14.5 ~= 110, slightly less - then 110/22 = 5) Of course you do not want to give the minimum to the fringe players all over - you want to invest in them, so if freak accident happens, you'd have someone to step up. That means, the average salary ceiling for every starter needs to come down below 5. Preferably 4 somewhere. (This will give room for about 22M - should be good enough to invest in good prospects, some interesting FAs, and insurance policy for freak accidents, should one happen.) - here, the naive assumption is, that the cap figure at this level also is representative of the player's playing capability/or potential. That means, whoever is starting, the starters are all equally worth 5M at most. (QB is a different matter, but I will get to that later.) This in turn means, if someone is making 10M, his performance had better justify the salary cap figure - as in, he can literally do two men's work all by himself on every play. He can't be a situational player. He had better be a 3-down player that does two men's work on every down. In simpler terms, Revis is getting paid 9M/yr. If he can take out the other team's 10M/yr receiver, THEN it is a fair trade. If the other team doesn't even have one of these? Then that's a wasted salary cap figure on that match up. Revis has to make up for it by covering TWO guys at the same time, which he obviously can't do. And how many teams on average have two 10+M/yr player at WR position? Not even Falcons have that (Julio Jones at 1.8M/Roddy White at 5.6M). This means Jets have overspent on CB position (20+M). Don't just take my words for it. Look up the salary cap structure of other teams. You will not see that many 10M+/yr contract except at QB, regardless of how good that player is. Do you think really these GMs don't know good talents when they see one? Unless it is a QB, who can elevate the level of play for the entire offense, you cannot justify 10+M salary for one player. If Mangold, Ferguson, Harris and Revis are all as good as they say they are (No. They are overpriced players. Every one of them.) then Jets would do very well to trade them all away, and let their bloated contracts be someone else's problem. (Before I forget, thank you, T-Bomb. You fucking suck dick.) If I had to bet, I'd willingly bet that you just won't find a single taker in any of the four deals. (The reason is fully explained in details above.)
I think you nailed it. Its not if we want him. We all do. Can we sign him with our other situations re cap etc. I don't see us winning it all in 2013 so we need to deal with this mess and look further than 2013.
You guys are getting emotional about this. This is a business. We all WANT Revis to stay, but what someone is willing to pay with dictate market value. Paying elite money for an elite player doesn't mean you're getting tremendous value, and getting value is how you win games. I'd be okay with it if Revis wasn't a CB, but he is. He has less impact on the game than the money we pay him dictates, even though he is awesome at what he does.
Everything comes down to what you get for him. No one's suggesting you trade him for crap, but exploring trades should CERTAINLY be an option.
This isn't Madden, you can't just dump them because you don't like them..if the Jets were to do so they would take on 51 million in dead money and years of debt. They dumped the fool that made those deals and that was all they could do. 75% of the cap goes to 8 players and most of them are getting old in NFL terms..it will take time to clean up this mess. Fortunately they cam cut two of those 8 now but there are two more to take their place and make the 75% closer to 70%.
I KNOW they cannot do it. And I am not suggesting to dump them 'because I do not like them' either. Their salary level is not justified - that's the whole basis of this logic. But then, there is this thing called Spike year... as in, they may not 'trade' them all but they can still 'release' them and eat the cap hit this year.
It's an interesting debate. Revis is a once in a generation player. If it ever comes to a point where you are looking to trade away a player of his caliber, then something has went seriously wrong in that franchise. Years of trading up (sacrificing depth), handing out big contracts to aging players and poor personnel choices has put us in a place where this is a not too unrealistic option. If I was the new GM, I would not trade him for love nor money. If the following season is a poor one, I will be the scapegoat for letting the greatest corner in history go. There are other solutions to the mess that this franchise is in. As a fan base, we need to be patient and rebuild this team. That means keeping our star players, waiting for the right QB (2014 draft) and giving young players time to develop. EDIT: I also don't have full belief that we will make good use of the picks/players given to us for Revis.
I think that's what got us to where we are now. Last thing I would like to see now is deferred money or back loaded contracts. Just swallow the pill this year and then we can free up 33 million next year and with that we can start getting some good players.
Getting value does not win Superbowls. Not in today's NFL. QBs do. There is no point in gutting your team of its best player when the only thing that can propel you to a SUPERBOWL is something his trading can not provide. That Indy team that Polian built was a complete JOKE. But they had Manning and now Luck. If trading Revis gave me a top 5 QB id pack his bags. It doesn't, however, and so it's all a dog and pony show. If balancing the roster is the chief concern there are half a dozen other overpaid players on this team that arent hall of famers.
You don't trade away your best player IMO. But if this contract situation gets worse, Jets just might need to do what they need to do.
The position he plays does not warrant the salary he demands, no matter how good he is. The top CB in the game is not worth $10 million+ a year and he will not play for less. That is 1/12th of the entire team's salary cap for a player who can cover one player on the other team. And when you consider that the Jets main competition, the Pats, don't even have a player for Revis to blanket, what are the Jets paying for???? So Revis shuts down the game's top receivers in maybe 8 games a year and the for the rest he is paid $10 million to cover the Brandon Lloyds Brian Hartlines of the NFL. Belicheat was smart enough to change his offense to feature TEs and slot receivers to take away the Jets strength on defense. Look at the schedule next year. Who is Revis shutting down? The Jets play top receivers in a handful of games - Cincy with Green, Atlanta with White/Jones, TB with Jackson.Pitt with Wallace. Then there are some good receivers - Steve Johnson, Steve Smith. Then you have the Saints who force you to cover 3-5 receivers and TEs and he can only cover one. And the rest of the schedule he is not challenged or utilized - NE twice - Brandon Lloyd? Mia twice - Brian Hartline? Clev- Gordon? Baltimore - Smith/Boldin? Oakland - Moore/Heyward-Bey?, Tennessee -Britt? How is that worth it?????????
That bolded is the reason why this defense will NEVER be great we need offense and a great punter or else they will always falter
If Revis plays for 6-7M/yr, (which I think is the correct value for him) then I'm all for keeping him. If he's looking for 14+M, then he had better take a hike. P.S. If Jets can unload either Revis or Cro, and keep #2 CB at at 4-5M or so, then I won't be against paying Revis (or Cro, depending on who Jets unload) ~10M/yr. That said: Mangold's cap figure has to go down dramatically (about 6M or so). Same with Ferguson (6M or so) Harris has to take a massive pay cut (around 3-4M/yr) Tone? He had better fuck off. Same with Nacho. (That's half the cap, boys. See how ridiculously this team was managed? And you all praised that dumb fuck like he is a genius that he never was. Good riddance.)
CBs are complimentary players in today's game. The passing game and the rules have simply evolved too much over the past 15 years that the true value of a shutdown corner has diminished. For example... If this was 1994, Revis could shutdown Michael Irvin and completely disrupt the Cowboys offense. The reason for this is that most teams had to double cover Irvin with the high safety, which would free up the middle of the field for Novacek and the #2 Receiver of the day. That allows your run game to totally destroy the defense (especially easy with a HOF RB and offensive line) in the trenches. On the flip side, if you started with the run game, Smith would carve up defenses until the safety moved up to support the run game. Once Irvin had 1-1 coverage he was going to beat his man with ease. Rinse & repeat... A Revis type player in that era could take out Irvin (that is why the 49ers picked up Sanders). This allows the safety to focus on run support and policing the middle of the field, taking away the complimentary #2 WR and TE in the process. This also further disrupts the running game with the safety further up in the box. FAST FORWARD TO 2013... The rules now favor offensive spread offenses. Teams are moving away from the G&P approach and a downfield offensive attack with only 3 receivers running patterns. Now teams regularly 4-5 receiver patterns. That means the value of the nickel and dime position are actually greater now than a shutdown corner. A shutdown corner only takes away 1 receiver and was a force multiplier 20 years ago. In today's game the impact is much less. Factor in the salary cap impact of paying Revis, and the salcap allotment is negatively disproportionate to his actual impact on the game. None of the above takes away from the physical and technical skills of Revis. In a different era, he is a HOFer. Today his impact is much less given the offenses he is playing against. The Jets would actually have a better impact with him at FS given his tackling and ball skills. Imagine the plays he could make with that skillset with the ball in front of him instead of always playing with his back to the QB!!! That would also go a long way to solving the TE quandry they face when playing teams like the Patriots as he easily has the physical skills to take out a Gronk or Hernandez. The problem is that he won't move positions and he won't take a pay cut. The Jets passing defense survived the absence of Revis in 2012. That is proof of the value of the shutdown corner in the modern era of passing offense.
Revis averaged over 11 mil for 2010-13 seasons. You think he takes 6-7 mil? I think he wants at least 11 and we can't afford it.
