My Revis conflict

One of the biggest problems with this team is that the talent and salary cap allocation is so top heavy. We need to spend more resources on the middle to bottom of the roster so we aren't so bad in those area's that we're dealing with greats like Clyde Gates when someone goes down or the special teams scraps are so bad that a great special teams coach like Westhoff puts out a shitty special teams unit. It's basically the polar opposite of what the Pats do with stock piling 2nd round picks and filling up the roster with cheap mid to high end talent.

If you have a great QB making that kind of money it makes up for a lot of things. Unfortunately Revis isn't a QB.

 

Rex may have a good idea about building a good backside of the defense but his inability to get LBs and safeties who cover make his current plan fruitless and very expensive. They are laying out silly money for Revis and Cro. I too believe the Jets must have an injection of talent in several areas. Trading Revis is the only way they can do that.

 

Revis got hurt at the wrong time to have leverage in a contract negotiation. He also got hurt at the wrong time for trade value. Revis should know he has to come back and prove himself as an elite corner if he wants a big contract from the Jets or from any team in a trade.

The fact that the Jets had a solid pass defesne ranking probably hurt is value also because teams saw the Jets didn't need Revis to play a solid pass defense.

His best bet some back, no hold out, no contract fight, just come in and prove you are the revis of old and see what happens.

 

Add with what? Westhoff was right. You cannot have a handful of guys tying up 40% of the salary cap. Not on a team that has to pay 53 guys. You cannot allocate that kind of money to a CB position. And secondary? Teams throw on our LBs all day and rack up first downs and time of possession. Our D is not balanced. And they are on the field all day because our QB stinks, our LBs cannot close on receivers and our talent level on offense is inadequate. Only money or drafft picks can save that. And Revis can provide both. By getting out of here with the contract he will require and by bringing back picks or players.

 

You worry too much. You'll get wrinkles from all that worrying. Take a deep breath, relax and if you have to worry, worry about something more important than football

 

Plus a bunch. This trading Revis for future potential Gholstons, Robertsons, Bechts and Blair Thomases is pretty much the silliest nonsense of all

 

I'm okay with Keeping Revis if the Jets can resign him at a reasonable cap rate, however that isn't Revis's history.

Unless I'm 100% convinced the Jets can resign Revis after 2013, i trade him if I can get the right price.

After all, if he goes FA in 2013 it's a 9M cap hit and only a 3rd round comp pick, thanks Tanny for that!

 

I think there's a lot of value in having two really good/great cornerbacks like the Jets have when both Revis and Cro are healthy. The Jets are a serious pass rusher away from having a tremendous defense. As it is now, it's still better than average and good enough when Revis was on the field.

That said, during the Rex years we have seen the defense have bad drives at the end of close games, partially because of constantly being on the field due to the offense's inefficiency but also because of the lack of a good pass rush. As the game goes on and the defenders wear down, the lack of a good pass rush attacking the quarterback winds up really hurting the team. This wouldn't be as big of an issue if the offense was league average (like in 2009 with the awesome run game or 2010 when Sanchez wasn't terrible and the run game was still effective).

I'd trade anybody for the right pieces, but I don't think I'd trade Revis just to get some decent picks. It'd have to be a great haul. I think the biggest question is whether or not the Jets can afford to have so much money tied up in the cornerback position while still trying to field a complete team considering the salary cap.

 

No wrinkles here :lol:

Maybe I should just ask you where I can get a pair of those green shaded glasses that make everything look hunky dorey in Jetville / land :breakdance:

 

As annoying as his hold-outs are, Revis has proven to be worth it. He is the definition of a complete football player. His coverage skills are unreal and his tackling ability is as good or better. He is a once-a-generation talent and toying with the idea of trading him while his value is lowered doesn't make sense to me. I don't know if he will have lingering issues after surgery, and referencing what Peterson has done is irrelevant. No two bodies heal the same way. I believe that Revis will do everything he can to rehab and return to form.

Secondly, trading him leaves us with Cro and impending FA K-Dub. I am absolutely no fan of K-Dub's game at all. While he did well after Revis went down, I think that's partly because our LB's sucked so bad in coverage it made no sense to game plan on attacking him. If our LB's provided better coverage I think he would've been exposed badly, just my opinion.

 

The Jets defense was just fine without Revis. They gave up some big 3rd down plays, but overall, I thought did a pretty good job this season and improved as the year went on.

I get it, Revis is amazing. Obviously he's an unbelievable talent, but you have to factor in two things:

1. Cornerbacks DO NOT have the impact that they used to have. With new offensive schemes designed to spread a defense out, no, Revis doesn't "shut down half of a field". He shuts down the best WR, which is great and you can't take that away from him, but with 3, 4, and 5 wide, it's importance to shut down the best WR becomes so minimal. The keys to winning in today's game is to (a) have a top tier QB, (b) have a vaunted pass rush, and (c) build a high quality OL.

2. A premier player isn't worth as much as you'd think to a team if it hamstrings you at other positions because you're PAYING him as a premier player. Great, Revis may end up in the HOF, but without a Super Bowl, what do I care? Do fans care that much about the individual achievement of a player if it doesn't help their team to win? Paying a premier player premier money limits what you can do elsewhere. I'm fine with doing that at a more important position (such as my points above), but it just doesn't make sense with Revis.


I don't personally buy into the distractions or any of that other nonsense that Revis "creates" with his holdout and such, but I also don't see the same value as others do in Revis, because logically speaking, having the best cornerback in football doesn't help you as much as you'd think because of the position he plays and the money you have to pay him. In my estimation, most people that wouldn't entertain trading Revis (and I'm not saying to take $0.50 on the dollar for him) are putting their blinders on to how his contract needs actually do hold back this team. I'm all for trading him if it means we can start addressing the real problems on this team, and that's QB, a pass rush, and OL upgrades. Am I happy with our RBs, WRs, or LBs? Not especially, but I consider those positions to also be less important in the grand scheme of things.

This team needs to build through the draft. Get our picks right, and we start moving in the right direction. That means stockpiling picks now, and I would trade Revis to do it. It sure can backfire if we get those picks wrong, but that's the Jets' job to figure out who's going to make it in this league. The draft is so much more important now with the current rookie caps. Why pay market value for a free agent when you can hopefully land star-caliber players and quality depth in the draft for a better value? By signing Revis to a contract extension, you're paying market value for a free agent (if not more, because let's be honest, Revis sets the market).

 

I agree with that ^ and this is why we have the problems we do now. Tannenbaum was pure shit and it took everybody in Jetville and here years to figure that out..he either traded picks away to draft bad plaers or just drafted bad players with the picks he already had. Sure he made a few good picks over the years but the bad picks, the picks that had no place being where they were, far outpaced his good ones.

 

Totally agree. We all know what Revis is, and what he can do on the field. Anyone talking about trading him is not debating his worth to us.

The problem is that we don't get to deal with a Hall of Fame corner in a vacuum. We have to deal with a Hall of Fame corner with a blood sucking demon as an agent who thinks Revis should be paid like a second tier franchise QB. Maybe he should, again in a vacuum, but when you have that AND an overpaid QB (be him Nacho or whoever you have to pay to play under center) you have a top heavy roster with not a lot left for depth room and mid tier guys at other key spots.

Tanny's a great GM. He's just in the wrong sport. This isn't the fucking NBA, where you can throw a king's ransom at Lebron and Dwayne Wade, get the rest of the team off the street, and still bring home a ring. There's no fucking proportionality to the talent tiers in this organization - it's your 1st tier and then a cliff dive to scrubs.

If trading Revis means it frees up not only the money, but the picks to get two quality starters and two more quality 2nd stringers out of him, then I'm all for it. And doing it sooner than later just forgoes what may be the inevitable - that Revis walks anyway.

 

To me most people are missing the main argument.

to me the argument isn't whether the team is better with or without Revis, in purely football terms it is better with him.
The argument also isn't to trade Revis just to get draft picks to improve the team, while it may or may not improve the team it's a little bit of a crap shoot.

The arugment is whether or not Revis will walk after 2013, or if the Jets can afford to keep him after 2013. Forget about how good the team is with or without him. Forget, for a moment that he's the best at his position in the game. Just ask one question, will he be a Jet after 2013? Whether by his decision to leave or him asking for more money that the Jets can afford on the cap, long haul.

If the answer is yes, the discussion over, keep him.

If the answer is no, then discussion over, trade him. Becasue if the answer is no, all the Jets get is a end of the 3rd round comp pick and a kick in the balls with a 9 million dollar cap hit as his prorated bonuses accelerate.

 

Personally, my vote is no regardless, because there is no way that he will be worth the money he gets, and definitely not the money he's seeking. He's a CB, a damn good one, but still a CB.

 

Revis Data and cap questions

Feel free to merge if you feel this is redundant but I wanted to get clarification on some info and feel this could get lost in the present thread. Also, some cap questions would apply to others not just Revis.

What we know:

1) Revis can not be franchised after 2013. He can walk no matter how much we want him.
2) Previous contracts with him have been difficult.
3) He is a rare player who is coming off injury hurting his value in trade.
4) While we can open cap space, our cap situation is still tighter than many.
5) If he walks the draft compensation would likely be close to Nnamdi Asomugha who gained Oakland a third round pick one year later. So we would be around a 2014 third round pick for him. Thats it for one of the best players in the NFL.

Need info/clarification
1) From the excellent NY Jets salary cap site: Dead money in 2014 if cut is 9 million. Also 3 million prorated bonus from signing bonus applied in 2013. Does this mean if he is traded in 2013 all signing bonus accelerates and we get a 12 million cap charge? Also if he walks after 2013, we still get a 9 million charge?

2) If the above are correct and we redo his contract in say 2013, can the 12 million from current bonus proration be spread over the life of the new deal or does it accelerate?

It appears that a 2014 team without Holmes, Sanchez and Revis will have over 16 million in dead cap money. The dead money alone would pay for a Revis or top QB. Yes we "save" against the cap not having Holmes and or Sanchez but there is a cost as well. And losing Revis for a third round pick while getting a nine million charge would suck.

 

The argument is even more simple than that. If they can't sign him to a new deal before the season starts then try and trade him now. There is 0 chance he comes back here if he plays out the year without a new deal. Lots of GOOD teams have plenty of cap space.

 

I'm torn on this byz. On one hand I don't want to see Revis go. Is like him to stay a Jet for at least another 4 years and go into the HOF as a Jet. On the other hand, trading a top commodity could allow us to gain some valuable resources such as draft picks or a couple of players in which we could use to help rebuild our depleted roster after cuts are made this year.