Not as much as you think. Maybe a couple times a month, if that anymore. Most of what goes on there is now separated from what goes on here. Besides, most of the references you speak of can be found all across the internet from Teboners like yourself. In fact, I've come across many of you on a few other sites. (Getting your foot in the door so nobody can call you a post 3-12er? LOL.) Only so many UNCHALLENGED "I love Tebow" posts I can sift through. That place is mostly just a bunch of Tebow Cultists stroking each others Teboners anyway. Got boring some time ago.
No it doesn't. Wins are a TEAM achievement, not a measure of a PLAYER'S talent and it's stupid to claim otherwise.
NFL history is full of marginally talented QB's with winning records. I have to admit though, I would love to hear some arguments about how Chad Pennington, Mark Sanchez, Elvis Grbac or Kyle Orton are anything more than marginally talented. The most telling statistic in Tebow's career could very well be that in three seasons in the NFL, he has only been able to start 16 games. There are so many crappy QB's who ended their careers with winning records and a playoff win or two that Timmy is going to need to a lot more in this leage to be thought of as anything more than a college superstar with a fluke run in the pros.
Yeah i know I have explained it 1000 times. when I say he has a winning record AS A STARTER it means just that and does not imply he won by himself EVERY other QB in the NFL gets referred to as "wins as a starter" except Tebow because of people like you (please stick to baseball...). For the record and for the 1001 st time posted on these forums: Tebow was not the only reason the Broncos completely turned around that abysmal record and ended 8-5 with a playoff win , obviously special teams and defense were a huge part. BUT without Tebow the Broncos do not go 8-5 with a playoff win , as Tebow is one of the 3 pieces that were necessary to get that accomplished. Quinn and Orton would not have had that success running the traditional offense. The Tebow offense McCoy and Fox installed was better at getting wins and Tebow executed it very well (especially for being throw into it in the middle of the year). The other two components for the turn around where defense and special teams . Yes tebow had hot 4th quarter drives that got Praeter in position but prater came through again and again. The defense made stop after stop and Tebow executed a made out of thin air offense to the point where Denver was the #1 rushing team in the league .... It all worked, together. Therefore Tebow deserves as much credit for the turn around as the defense and the kicking game (he was one of the 3 pieces) .
So by your standards then does that mean that all losses are a team effort? I watched the Thanksgiving 2012 game and did not see where the "Team" forced Mark to throw all those interceptions much less force him to run into his own lineman and fumble the ball. Last season's 6 win count falls squarely on Mark and Rex's shoulders. I did not see an entire team fall apart. I saw one man buckle when he should have stood tall.
We get it. You gave ONE GUY almost a THIRD of the credit on a 53 man roster. Gave it to a guy that mustered 5 - 10 minutes at best at actually resembling a QB while everyone else bailed out his three-and-out-do-nothing offense. Rediculous. ...and everyone outside of Tebowmania can see that. This is exactly why nobody wants him. They could have done it with probably 90% of the quarterbacks in the league, the way the defense performed in many of those 8 wins. Maybe not in the same dramatic fashion as Tebow did, having generated usually 3 to 7 offensive points in the first 3 quarters, but really, 16 points shouldn't be that tough to get for most offenses. Especially one run by a you all called a, "dual threat" QB. "Dual threat" .... Not really sure what makes you think Tebow was the only guy that could have done that. Orton did it 23 out of 25 times under those conditions. Still not seeing why Tebow was all that special, or why he gets about a third of the credit by himself.
Not looking to convince you. I just don't get why Tebow gets such a high proportion of the credit, in your opinion, for something just about any scrub QB can do. It's fine if you can't answer why Orton could not get those points too when he has a track record of being able to do so. I can see why you would deliberately avoid that point. Cuz it proves the argument you are trying to make that Tebow was something special in 2011 was rediculous. I give him about 10%, which is still a lot of credit IMO. Mostly because he did find ways to score at the end. I just think a lot of that credit is overshadowed by him helping dig the team into a hole by not accomplishing a damn thing for the first 55 minutes in the first place. He gets credit for helping dig out of a hole he helped dig up to begin with. Nothing more.
You can tell a lot about Tebow's true impact based on how everyone did after the breakup. Broncos: Won 13 games, earned playoff bye, shit the bed against eventual Super Bowl Champs. Decent chance of winning division again in 2013. Tebow: Unable to win stacked QB competition (kidding BTW) for one of the worst teams in the league. Jets FO further tries to destroy poor Timmy's career by bringing in David Garrard, yet another superstar QB Tim will never be given a "fair shot" to beat.
How many quarterbacks are the Jets going to go after to "compete" anyway? Still have interrest in Kolb. Haven't shut the door on Quinn. Looks like they are looking at WCO, which is something Tebow would struggle terribly with. People really think Tebow stands a chance in hell of beating all them out to get playing time? Seems most they are looking at have throwing skill, and one of them is a runner. Cue song, "which of these kids is doing his ooooooowwwwnn thing. One of these kids is not like the ooooooothhhherrrrr...." Looks like Matt Cassell was signed in Minnesota. One less potential roster spot taken. Getting closer to his press conference of him being excitedly excited and just exceited and plain old excited to be an.... Edmonton Eskimo.
I am right there with you CC. I would be interested to know the Jets true plans for #15 but it seems they are moving forward with the new year without any concern for Tim's role on the team. Maybe the new GM is saying nothing because there is nothing to say...if that is the case, all things Jets would really benefit from just cutting some QBs and moving on. I have never seen a team benefit from a 5-man competition when there are only two real options on the roster anyaway.
There really isn't anything for him to to say. Everything the Jets are doing right now look to me like they are looking at the WCO. Looking at QBs who can make those throws. That pretty much rules one guy on the roster out right there. Morningwood says he likes Timmy, but he isnt going to be the one calling the shots. Looking like another year on the bench if the Jets don't cut him. He'd be duking it out with McElroy for the third spot for sure. What, you didn't think they went after Garrard because they were happy with Tebow at #2 did ya? Quarterbacks are starting to fly off the shelves as more teams are signing them. If Tebow were even a quarter as good as his cultists believe he is, you'd think a team in desperate need for a QB would be talking to the Jets right now to offer at least a 7th rounder. Jets would probably be happy to get even that.
The whole organzation is in such a rebuild that they can not afford to have any projects playing QB. Other teams have done this in the past; give the job to an established (possibly semi-shitty or average) veteran while the rest of the roster is rebuilt and depth is added. The QB they send out would at least look competent and put up some points. The Jets don't have any QBs capable of winning a shootout but if the rest of the team can pull it together a respectable season is still possible. I feel like this is the plan right now.
My argument has nothing to do with Tebow specifically. I think measuring ANY QB's talent by wins is equally stupid. I politely disagree. Again, I disagree. He played TERRIBLE football for 55 minutes a game, then was able to catch teams by surprise with playground style nonsense. And then, ONLY because the defense kept them in position while he was busy not scoring points for most of the game. That's not a recipe for sustained success in the NFL. No, there are times when one play can lose a game but it's a lot harder to win a game singlehandedly than lose it. You can always go back and find previous plays that, if they were made, would have changed the situation, but there are certainly times where one player can lose a game. These times are usually on defense with a blown coverage. Yes, there are times when a RB fumbles or a QB throws a bad INT that can cost the game, but it's more common on the defensive side.
Mark Sanchez has a winning record in his 4 years in the league, and is 4-2 in the playoffs. ELITE QB.
You are in the minority on this as team wins have been a measurement of a QBs ability to lead a team effectively as long as the nfl has been around.
You do realize that you have taken my argument that Tebow did more than Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus russel ( all time type bust) and you have inserted the word elite ? So you took my response on one end of the spectrum ( that he is not a bust) and applied it to " elite" The collective IQ of the anti Tebow crowd in this forum does not reach tipple digits guaranteed.
