how am i exaggerating? he made twice as much as the other ILBs in free agency, all younger and most several rated higher
you have decent thoughts on things, and i agree with a lot of posts you write. but you also seem to have a tendency to vastly over exaggerate. ie, never draft a RB under any circumstances, Harris was paid twice the market value, he is a bottom 10 starter, etc... when you use that type of hyperbole, expect to get called out on it, as you don't have any actual substance to support such claims. if you were to say you'd prefer 5-6M per, or less guaranteed, i could understand that. when you say things like, Harris got paid twice the market value, and then get shown otherwise, you come off looking foolish by continuing to claim it.
the market value is determined by contracts of similar players at a position, not one particular FA class. I've already shown you the current list of those players. the fact that Harris was head and shoulders the best ILB this FA only ticks up his value. It doesn't get dragged down because only lesser players are available. but you already know this..
again, im not sure how you can debate he got twice the market value, when all the other inside linebackers on the market got half of what he got. and those players where right on par with him, and younger
i disagree drastically on both counts. he isnt near a top 10 ILB. no way, not for a 2 down player id take lofton and mclain over him ina heartbeat, especially when you factor in age. he isnt a much better player then brandon spikes. certainly not twice as good
again, the market value is determined by contracts of similar players at a position, not one particular FA class. this particular FA ILB class being very weak outside of Harris only increased his value. how do you not understand market value? out of the top 12 paid ILB's (list i already provided you), explain to me which guys are much better than him and why...
I dont view harris as better then those guys. Specifically i'd take mcclain over him. when you factor age i dont see where those guys arent at least close to as good even if you are high on harris. as far as the list you mentioned: Timmons - all pro type talent. Bowman - when healthy arguable the best ilb in the game. one of the best tacklers in the league, great in coverage, makes plays in coverage Cushing - a monster, great in all facets. however im willing to say he doesnt belong here because of his ties to steroids and durability issues Laurinitis - younger then harris, much better in coverage, just as good or better everywhere else Daryl Washingon - solid vs the run and a great playmaker. Donald Buter - im not farmiliar with him, so i wont comment Mayo - basically a younger better version of harris. i dont think he belongs here because of health but when he signed the deal they assumed health Harris Sean Lee - very good vs the run and in coverage. maybe not better then harris or more talented, but you can keep him on the field for 3 downs Dansby - he is kind of in the harris stage of his career where he cant be on the field every down. but when he signed his deal he was one of the leagues best Curtis Lofton - just as good a tackler as harris, but can also cover Jon Beason - was arguably one of the 10 best defensive players in the league when he signed his deal. injuries clearly changed that. other then guys who where clearly better when they signed the deal but got injured/old since then im not sure who isnt clearly better other then Lee who id still take over him and butler who i am not very farmiliar with. I just think its absurd to pay a 31 year old 2 down player who is a really big weak link when opponents throw that much money. it makes me even more angry with mo looking for an extension. we can agree to disagree but i refuse to believe we are any better with harris on this team as opposed to mcclain or spikles
No, no, no. Wilkerson was a second team all pro. Not this season, but it's obviously not gonna happen every year. He hasn't made a pro bowl because they're more or less bs, so I have no clue where you're getting your info. A simple google search is all you'd need.
Reyes is right, you have it backwards. He never made the Pro Bowl, which uses fan voting as a large factor. He has been named second team all pro, which is the closer measure of success
I understand I don't have it backwards. I was talking about last year when I said he wasn't close in the voting, and he wasn't. But I did for some reason think he was a Pro Bowler somewhere along the line and that made my point lost in my confusion, lol. I was prolly thinking about the '13 All Pro 2nd team as 'pro bowl' alternate or something, should've looked it up first. I admit I really don't pay a lot of attention to those awards tho. I don't view him as All Pro right now that's all. I should've been clearer on that point.
Second team is not a closer measure of success than starter. Otherwise you are basically saying that he is better than JJ Watt (No, he isn't).
Read the post. Second team all pro is a closer measure of success than being selected to the Pro Bowl for obvious reasons. The Pro Bowl and the All Pro team are two completely different things
Cushing, Lee, Beason are injury prone, Harris is also a better tackler then all of those guys. I remember when Golden Tate destroyed Sean Lee. Danbsy sucks and isn't nearly as good as Harris this stage of his career. Have you seen Timmons / Bowman deal btw? He makes twice as much as Harris. You are treading water here, I see your point but you are thinking way too much into this. Durability, reliability, able to get a few sacks and makes plays, Harris's deal isn't the worst and the Jets can escape it after 2 years. In regards to Mayo, his play has regressed and he's been injured as well. Inside linebackers are hard to find, good ones are near impossible. It was imperative to keep Harris.
1) I said myself those guys were injury prone. but they werent when they signed their contracts. I think it is also kind of riddiculous to call harris a better tackler then Beason. 2) Golden tate was one of the 5 best wideouts in football last season. I dont think it is a knock that an ILB couldnt lock him down. He isnt revis, he isnt shutting down guys like megatron. Timmons/Bowman are 3 down players who are twice as good as harris(in my opinion much more then twice as good), Mayo didnt sign his deal post injuries. as i mentioned. Harris might be durable, but what good is staying on the field if you are a liability? the guy is a 2 down player who could easily be replaced for half the cost, maybe even upgraded. escaping the contract in 2 years is moot, as we will likely need to address wilkerson and shelly prior to that
Sean Lee and Cushing were always labeled as injury prone and Cushing had issues with PED very early on. Harris does not miss tackles and he's not injury prone, right now I would take Harris - and Harris is making I think 5M more at most then Beason. Jets were in a situation where they had to spend money and the cap is increasing by the season. Golden Tate was w/ Seattle at that time and his talents were not on full display. You don't even remember the hit, let me show you. I've never seen that happen to Harris EVER. Bowman and Timmons are all-pro caliber players making twice the amount of Harris so why are they even in this conversation? Harris is going to get you tackles, stop the run, get to the QB, and he knows the system, he knows where to be. Bowles will look to put Harris in the best situation to succeed, so if he's going after the QB on blitzes or jamming a TE at the LOS - Harris is more than capable of doing that. Harris is only a liability when you ask him to cover down the field. That to me is on Rex. Again, there were no players in FA to upgrade the ILB position - it would have been nice to get one in the draft, but it didn't work out. Jets have $$$ for Wilkerson and Sheldon. Jets also have at least another yr before they hit the panic button on Wilkerson.
evaluating a player, ANY player on 1 play is kind of useless. The guy was chasing russell wilson, one of the most dangerous running QBs. he got blindsided by a WR. maybe that hasnt happened to harris, but it is hardly any kind of play to evaluate the 2 players entire games on. you know what i have seen harris do on passing downs? get absolutely torched by tight ends and runningbacks, consistently, to the point where it hurts to have him on the field on passing downs. not the case with LEE, even if he does got blindsided on a QB scramble now and then i dont know, ask the guy who brought them up and asked me to comment on them. how does he know the system when its brand new? Brandon spikes can make tackles for 4M less. we didnt need to upgrade the position but we could have got similar production for half the price. And harris isnt just a liability covering down the field, he is a liability covering anywhere on the field we dont know that... and to make it there will need to make some sacrafices. it is unlikely we will be able to pay both of them without gutting other impact players from this roster. We basically chose harris over extending wilkerson
You are reaching big time to justify the Jets not signing Harris to a contract. At the end of the day, Sean Lee is not a durable football player, has been injured the majority of his career. Lee is not a guy you can depend on, and that is why the Jets resigned Harris. That's all there is to it. The majority of linebackers you presented not only were signed on different teams, half aren't as durable and they aren't as good in the tackling department as Harris. Harris again - smart, tough and durable. Bowles having a good football IQ linebacker allows him to also focus on other positions on the defense. It will be a seem-less transition for Harris and Bowles. OK, we know he can't cover - again, w/ Erin Henderson, DeMario Davis and Joe Mays - Harris will not be asked to cover like he did with Rex Ryan. Bowles I think will put the players in a situation to succeed. The coverage argument is done we can move on from that. You appear to be very close minded in regards to the versatility of this defense. Maybe you should do some more research and come back another day. I would rather keep the familiarity of David Harris to this team and his teammates for the extra 4 M. Who the fuck cares about Spikes? Dude is not that special, Harris is a far better player. He's smarter on the field and is prob a better overall player even with Harris being 31.
I stopped paying attention and taking seriously that guy when he stated that he truly believes "he isnt close to a top 10 ILB. he might be bottom 10 (among starters)". I mean, bottom 10? Guy's delusional, period.
So we enter OTAs without Mo. I know people think that is not a big deal, OTAs are voluntary after all. I can't help but worry about the situation. IMHO Mo is trying to send a message that the front office already knows full well, that is he is not happy with the pace of the negotiations. He is also in my opinion not receiving the message the front office is sending back " We value and want you at the right price, not at the JJ Watts level" Pace in negotiations is set by both parties. I wonder if the situation can come to an impass and what would be the best solution for the Jets? OTAs might not be critical for an established mature organization but they sure help develop the team chemistry this team desperately needs, particularly in light of the massive changes we have undergone this year. I sure was hoping to see Mo in OTAs. If Williams shines in his absence the message could blow up in his face.
