If you look at the situation it appears to be clear that the land in question is public land and that the Bundy's claim grazing rights because they've grazed cattle there since 1887. Since the mid 40's the land has been under the management of the federal government, as opposed to just being federal land that was not managed by any particular authority. The Bundy's position is that the land is not legally managed by the BLM. They've tried to pay the state of Nevada for grazing fees belatedly, but the state - which does not own the land nor manage it has refused the payments. This is a pretty simple situation. There are long-term squatters on public lands. The question is whether the government is going to deal with that reality and enforce their management of the land or whether the government is going to give up all management of public lands to private lessees. You can't give the Bundy's one set of rules and force everybody else to live by another. I don't give the Bundy's a snowball's chance in hell of getting through this at this point. They're basically blazing the trail for the end of all public management of land by the federal government. I suspect that what will happen is the BLM will back off until the situation is calm and then they'll probably use overwhelming force to resolve it at an opportune moment. They can't let things stand unless they're going out of business. A 2nd year law student could probably get everybody else out of their grazing fees if the situation is allowed to stand.
Actually as I read their claim it's not that they purchased the land. They purchased the land the Bunkerville Ranch is currently located on. They graze lands all around the ranch. I don't believe any of the cattle removed from the land have actually been from the ranch proper. They've all been from the lands around it. Do you under stand the situation now? The Bundy's are grazing their cattle on land that they do not own. They're refusing to pay the federal government, which does own the land in common for all Americans, the grazing fees. They somehow have mentally transferred the ownership of the land, which has been federal since the claims were laid in the Nevada Territory in the mid to late 1800's, to the state of Nevada. Nevada wants no part of this fantasy because they know that by legal claim the land is the federal governments, not the state of Nevada's.
This is what I read from the daughter which seems to indicate they do own the land or at least they think they own the land. edit: sorry, I see what you're saying about the land around the ranch. It's been a long day.
It reminds me of the group who declared themselves to be residents of The Republic of Texas in the mid-'90s because... well, I still don't understand why. They issued their own currency and refused to pay Federal taxes or acknowledge the Federal government because "Texas never really became a U.S. state in the 19th century". Needless to say I believe they're all in prison, which is where these folks will end up- unless they start a firefight, in which case they'll probably all die.
It's not just a federalism vs state's rights issue either. Nevada knows they don't own the land. They achieved statehood based on a negotiated treaty that outlined federal vs state claims. This is individuals who believe they have natural rights that supersede the laws in place. Whether they have a moral claim or not, and I'm not going to make a judgement on that, they do not have a legal claim that will stand up in court, which is why all the judgements have gone against them so far. The problem is that if they somehow get their moral claims acknowledged it will blow up the entire system. Government cannot favor one individual over another in similar circumstances. The government would eventually have to abandon all land management practices on federal land and essentially allow all people with similar circumstances to have equal access. It's just a very bad situation for the Bundy's but if they prevail it's a worse situation for the federal government. The Bundy's may owe the government $1.1M at this point in back grazing fees but that's just a drop in the bucket in terms of the overall contribution that lessees on federal land make each year for their leases. It's not going to end well and my prediction is that the Bundy's and their backers will get the worse of it in the end. One more thing: it's perfectly natural to assume that somebody with a case against the government is being persecuted or has a just cause. That's human nature. Unless the issue is one that we're fundamentally opposed too most of us are going to sympathize with the little guy vs the authorities. Some won't, but most will. In many cases though the little guy doesn't have a valid case, they just don't want to deal with the case they have and so they look for workarounds and sympathy plays and failing that they look for like-minded allies to stand with them. In that situation you usually wind up with something that looks like the mess the Bundy's are in today. They haven't paid their fees. They've tried to obfuscate on the issue by paying the state of Nevada, which turned them down, something their lawyers would have told them was going to occur. Now, with their backs against the wall they're calling for armed resistance against the government. They're not sympathetic heroes for the little guy. They're stubborn leaseholders trying to get something for nothing and using all of the above to try to get their way. The only thing that surprises me is that this has come to a head in an election year. If I was the government I'd have waited until December to roll on this.
No, they don't own the land. Bundy's cattle have been grazing on land managed by the BLM so the taxpayers ie; you and Bradway are paying for this guy's cattle to eat and get fat so he can then sell them to be slaughtered. He wants to have it both ways. He hasn't paid his dues in 20 years. The Feds say he owes over a million dollars and he says only 250K. The feds have done a shit job of managing the situation but there is a certain of the population who feels this is a case of the feds overstepping their bounds, yes the use of force by some officers has been ridiculous but these people are out there looking for trouble.
If you're interested in hearing Bundy's POV, here's a good start- http://www.hngn.com/articles/28762/...-battle-against-government-cattle-seizure.htm A Las Vegas rancher's son said force was needed in order to stop the government from seizing and selling his father's livestock. Agents from the federal Bureau of Land Management battled hundreds of supporters backing the Bundy ranch and family on Sunday, Reuters reported. BLM officials stated one week ago that Bundy owed at least $1 million in penalties, back fees and other citations. Authorities contended that he'd allowed his cattle to continue grazing on public land, despite multiple summons and court orders. Ammon Bundy told Reuters this weekend that he and others were pushed by necessity to show force. "We were dedicated to opening those gates and peacefully walking through to retrieve those cattle," Ammond said. "The presence of weapons was needed in order to intimidate them." Officials said Bundy, whose ranch is located around 80 miles northeast of Vegas, hadn't paid grazing fees for the past 21 years. Almost 1,000 supporters had a four hour-long standoff with federal officials on Saturday, as militiamen wielding arms demonstrated on horseback and foot with the Bundy family. Interstate 15 came to a standstill while the large group of supporters rallied in the streets, demanding bureau agents stop collecting the cattle. BLM authorities eventually conceded, and agreed to bring the cows back. "When we went up there, they knew we were serious," Ammon Bundy told Reuters. "They wanted to go. This thing was building and building and was going to continue." Supporters managed to gather around 350 cows from the federal bureau's holding areas. According to Reuters, some of the animals were said to have sustained wounds. Newborn calves were fed from bottles, Bundy said. Director of the bureau Neil Kornze said officials gathered the cattle from Bundy's farm because of safety concerns in the interest of both the workers and the public. BLM officials weren't immediately available for comment. 76-year-old Cliven Bundy said he was in awe at the sheer number of people who showed support for his family. "I was really quite humbled to the fact that there are so many good people," Cliven Bundy said.
Was due process followed in the case? Is the paper trail clean? Is the government doing an acceptable job of managing the lease? These are all questions we need to ask and get answers too. Federal management of federal lands is not the issue. Maybe basic competence in the management of those assets is.
it sounds like the blm has been losing for 20 years. I wonder what champ has to say about this? IMHO it won't be very positive for blm winning the tpd.
I actually heard that interview. When Glenn Beck is audibly giving signs that you're a lunatic you know you're in trouble.
This would a lot more pertinent if it was dated in the last two days but we don't know if it's two weeks old. Either way, Sheriff Mack has a big mouth which could get a lot of people hurt and maybe him a long term room at the Graybar Hotel.
