George, if I may offer you an advice, since it’s the Holidays, find and post something positive about the Jets, just one thing daily about the jets, I think it will help you release some stress dude. I am sorry you are so negative and have given up on the Jets.
I don’t know if I really agree that ZW is as athletic as some say he is. Sure he can roll out and throw and sling the ball from the weak side, with back foot. that is definite of his good traits, but he is not a runner or elusive as some of the athletic or running QBs in the league. That said you don’t want him to do something that he may not be good at. Keep it simple!
Actually he has improved whether you and others want to acknowledge that or not. Yes, if all you're doing is basing your measurements on stats it doesn't look like it, but if you watch the games he played you would see the difference. Moreover, 2021 Zach almost certainly would not have led them to wins in Pitt, GB, Denver, and against Miami and Buffalo, so that's certainly actual improvement. And if you're honest you'll agree that most posters here went from saying "We just hope to see Zach and the team improve - not make the playoffs, but be competitive" to "Zach sucks and is the reason they may not make the playoffs". This is basic "Moving the goal posts", and the laying of blame all on a 23 year old QB who the Jets haven't bothered to try and build their offense around is ridiculous. They knew what Zach's skill set was when they drafted him, and yet they've continued to try and force fit him into a scheme that doesn't fully use those skills. And to his credit, Zach hasn't complained and has tried to adapt his skills to that scheme, and for his effort he's being treated by a lot of posters here as though he asked to be drafted #2 and to play for a team that doesn't know how to develop QBs and that he's simply just sat on his ass and not tried to do what they've asked him to do. If I were Zach I'd ask to be traded.
This team was built to fail this year and be competitive next year, but ooopsie, the rooks balled out and the free agents worked out. This is a year to year league. If Zach needed more time he should have been relegated to holding the clipboard the whole year. I agree, it’s not fair to Zach, but that’s the way it works for these kids. It’s not just the jets. Unless you have an established vet and drafted someone years early, you get thrown in. Sink or swim.
I think he will ask to be traded. If he can lead them to the playoffs, he gets another year. If he wins a playoff game, he gets the fifth year option. I would have said similarly for MW.
I think last game was in an improvement for Zach. No he was not great, but MiLF opened up the play book, like in the first game against NE, and Zach had what I would call overall an average game. Was it a good game? No. But not bad either. People point to completion %, but he did have a high ypa, and passer rating was decent at 90. So stats suggest it was average game too. Zach had a terrible INT leading to 3 points, and to be frank should have been 7 points if not for the defense holding up on the 15 yard line. He had a terrible intentional grounding penalty that cost us 3 points. He missed wide open guys again. Took sacks he could have avoided. But he made some amazing plays too. Even at the end - he delivered the ball to 36 yard line. This should have been a 52 yard kick from the middle as opposed to 57 from left, but Moore tried to make a bigger play and lost 5 yards and positioning. We can factor the fact Detroit defense is bad, but our Oline was total crap too once again like for Mike White, no running game to speak of. I think with Mike White we win this game. There were just too many plays I felt like were left out, and while White does not make some throws Zach does, I think he has a similar outing as he did against the Bears and we win. He is right now ahead of Zach, no doubt. With that said, Zach gave us a chance too. Let's see if he can build from there against Jags. We desperately need a win, and Zach is the guy for that game. If he has another average game, it might be enough, assuming special teams don't give up another TD. Even though right now Jets punts returned for TD on the season count is 2, and all other 31 teams combined is 1, I think it is unlikely. Then this off-season we might have a real QB competition between Zach and White.
My stance on MLF and Zach is similar. Both are young guys in their respective professions and should be given some time to develop. I would argue MLF has shown a little more in regard to his profession than Zach has his but I’m not willing to give up on either one at this point.
That all changed when he showed more consistency In missing the easy throws, than being consistently accurate. You can't constantly dirt the easy throws, over throw the easy throws, be completely and utterly inaccurate every single game, then say he has improved. Not only Is he missing the easy stuff, he clearly can't read a fucking defense to save his life, not without rolling out to gain 10 more seconds of time to actually process something open. That's not improvement. Where has he improved? To you, let's start there. If you can't play In the pocket, you shouldn't be an NFL QB. It's not rocket science. I'm tired of hearing this, we drafted him, why aren't we rolling out every play, that's his strength....blah, blah... If that's his strength and that's all he Is capable of doing, that means we only have an offense that can be designed around half the field. Which limits us greatly In the long term. The constant excuses Is never ending for a kid that doesn't even look better than Josh Rosen. I can't comprehend It. Baffling. Oh, I hope he asks for a trade. Fingers crossed.
i actually DO watch all the games..I live in LA so I have to get Sunday Ticket, and I try to go to a couple games a year as I can…I went to the GB game and I’m flying out to NY Thursday morning to go to the Jags game. I agree that before the season started we’d have been happy with a record around .500 no doubt…JDs stated goal was “meaningful games in December” and we’ve done that. The problem is that most of the team came together a bit faster than maybe was expected even with all the injuries on the OL…certainly Sauce and Reed have been all that and between them and QW the defense went from worst in the league to top five-ish. Breece Hall provided a home run threat and GW has proven to be the stud WR we needed. So the entire team came together maybe ahead of schedule and it became pretty obvious that the QB was holding the team back. You can point to Zach being 5-3 all day, but if you watch he games, you have to agree that he was the weakest link in almost all of them, and that’s giving him credit for the 4th quarter in Pitt. so t what does a winner do? Do you sit there and say well we’re happy we are better than we expected, or do you say shit we have a chance to break the longest playoff drought in the league? So sure the goalposts have moved. No question. That’s not a bad thing. We SHOULD be pushing for more. I agree that we haven’t supported the QB as best we could…we DID get him much better weapons this year, but the OL has been bad. But we have not tailored the system to his best attributes which is on coaching. But I think after seeing Mike White and Josh Johnson and even Joe Flacco (last year more so than this year) all come in and look better in the same offense, I think it’s fair to say ZW is the problem. If you want to say the eye test shows some improvement have at it…I don’t think it’s anything significant and the stats back me up…my own eyes back me up as I have watched every single game. I still see him miss open guys I still see him struggle to go through progressions (the Buffalo game was one of his best and that was first read stick the throw) and I still see him miss too many easy throws. Agree the coaches should draw up a game plan that plays more to his strengths…but it is what it is at this point. But whatever improvements he’s made haven’t yet been significant enough to show up in his stats…
And again, MLF has had years more experience in the NFL than Zach. Moreover he doesn't have to go out on the field and actually prove what he designs works. If it doesn't he can always say "They didn't execute properly".
How much experience does MLF have as OC? Has Zach been playing QB most of his life or did he just start when he got to the NFL? The proof Is In the pudding. He can't just throw any play design out there, you can see If players are getting open, If holes are being created, etc.. Those things have been consistently happening ALL year. What more do you want from an OC? idk I don't get It.
I dont know WTF is gonna happen w/ ZW and MW... but this IS the QB thread most recent so... yesterday Fields threw for 98 (21 att) ran for 95 (15 att) in a loss , they have 3 wins and Fileds has missed gam,es due to injury i wonder wher we'd be w/ him at QB... am guessing better in the RZ do to hus RB style running... but would we gere at GGN be "happy" with his progress? my guess is more than we are w/ ZW by a clear margin, although i am as unsure about him as i was w/ Hurts last year... oh Fields has 10 INT and has fumbled 9 times but miraculously lost zero and this year Hurts went BOOM, although he did ding his shoulder yesterday
I don't quite get the point about forcing Zach's skill set into a scheme. Both 49ers and the Jets wanted Zach for the same scheme. I just rewatched some of his College tape to refresh my memory, and Zach has vast majority of his throws from the pocket, a lot of them down the middle. There are some rollout plays where he makes incredible throws too, but overwhelming majority of the damage he did is from the pocket. He was incredibly accurate from the pocket. His skill set fits what the Jets are trying to do very well. He just hasn't arrived yet. He may never arrive, but but he may also be vastly improved next year. I just don't think scheme is the problem here. Where I see a problem is the fact he had no weapons last year and OLine seems very bad this year, particularly after AVT got hurt. He developed some bad habits. But I thought last Sunday he did better. There is still a shot he can complete with likes of Mike White next year and win the job, like he did in 3d year in BYU. This year I think Mike is ahead, but Zach is much younger and things can be very different come next training camp. As far as forcing a trade, no one is giving Zach a starting job right now nor offering a high pick in a trade. He probably has the best chance to start right here, even though he won't go into 2023 as unquestioned starter as before.
As for the scheme fit…That may have been projected but it’s not where we’re at right now. I keep saying it but why are they not getting him on the move so much more? It’s obvious to everyone how much better and dangerous he is when he’s not sitting in the pocket only. We did a little better yesterday in that department but got away from it for like the whole 3rd quarter. Watch the Titans 2nd half and overtime of last season and do that every game - is it that hard?
Fields for the season has 15 TDs, 10 INTs, 62% completion, 7.5 Y/A, 157.5 Y/G, 88 Passer rating. On top of that, 1000 yards rushing, and 8 rushing TDs. Also, consider that he started slow, and the numbers are actually trending up. He missed only 1 game all year, against us thankfully, and he was a game time decision, nothing serious. By all accounts, Justin has made second year leap, and Chicago is very happy with what they have.
Maybe MiLF can get him a bit more on the move, but as some already explained, you can't have majority of the game like that, cutting half the field. Also, recall earlier in the year when he moved out the pocket. He ended up incomplete most of the time. A QB needs to be able to play in the pocket, then have occasional rollouts. It worked for him great in BYU, and it took a couple of years to really click there also. It just hasn't clicked yet in NFL with much high competition jump. But he needs to be more accurate from the pocket. This was his strength out of College, and on top of that he had off platform stuff, not instead of it.
I generally agree with you but there’s ways to get creative where it’s not just full on rollouts which I agree you can’t do all game. You can move the pocket (almost like a half roll out), use mid-direction, etc which we barely ever do either that I can recall. He needs to be much more accurate from the pocket, but he’s uncomfortable and honestly bad for the most part in standard pocket passing. So do we want to win now or just hope the light turns on the next few games?
so you'd be happy w/ the 3 win team? i doubt that. BTW, I am not defending or supporting anyone. Just wondering aloud. I KNOW Jets fans.
So we can’t criticize anything because we’re not players, coaches, or front office people? No one ever does anything or any parts of their jobs wrong in the NFL? I guess everyone and their mother yelling at Saleh to use a timeout yesterday should just shut up. They’re not coaches in the NFL for a reason right?
