You mention since 1984, so I'll add the 1984 Tigers as a team no fan complained about (maybe you meant since the Tigers, but since they were only a couple of years before the 1986 Mets I would include them also). I think the biggest aspect of that is how close the division race is - if a team is way in front early on, you're not going to hear too many complaints. Sorry, Alio, but IMO you're way off in your assessment of this Mets team. I agree with FITM that they're not as good as last year's team (they're certainly not playing as well, as the W-L record and all of the batting statistics make clear), and they are not remotely in the class of the 1986 team, which was one of the best teams of the last 85 years (right up there with the 1975 Reds, 1970 Orioles, and 1927, 1939, and 1998 Yankees). If fans were assured that the Mets would make the postseason you'd see a lot less angst, but that is far from true, since they haven't been able to shake even a pretty bad Braves team. Right now there are 5 teams in the NL that look to be fighting over 3 playoff spots, and that's an uncomfortable position for the fans of a team that was supposed to be pretty good. When you see the team (and manager) seemingly make the same mistakes again and again, it gets frustrating.
In 1984 I really only watched the Mets. It was 1985 when I would watch other teams, which really would only happen when I watched Yankees games, game of the week things (I don't remember what network aired games that year), and SportsCenter highlights. And of course, postseason games. The KC-STL one was the 1st WS I paid attention to. I only would stay up for the first few innings and would get the score in the morning before school. The 1984 Tigers would be right there, though. The division leads are key, but there are teams every year which win divisions comfortably but you can tell that there is something off that would likely prevent the team from making it to the WS.
Fair enough guys, but I still don't get why Mets fans spend so much time complaining, rather than enjoying the run you're on. I still think the only two teams in the entire LEAGUE in the same class as you are the Dodgers and Red Sox. I can't fathom being upset with that. For years, regardless of how good the Yankees have been, the Red Sox have been right at our doorstep almost the entire way. The Phillies and Braves are not even remotely as competitive as the Sox have been to the Yankees. I just think you guys should enjoy the ride. Sure, there are always issues, but it just seems like the general Mets fan mentality isn't so much "we need to improve the cleanup slot," or "our middle relief could really use one power arm," but more along the lines of "that F'n Delgado is a POS, and he's dragging down the entire lineup," or "Schoenweiss is single-handedly causing us to lose games." Like I said, I just don't get it. As has been shown, a "perfect" team is near impossible. (I'd argue that there's no chance of it, ever.) So why get all bent out of shape about it? And stop complaining about Willie. If you want to trade managers, just let me know. :wink:
As I said, I think the key is the possibility of not making the playoffs. In the last 11 years, only twice were the Yankees in even the slightest danger of not making the playoffs (2000 and 2005), and in both years there was loads of wailing from Yankee fans about it (and 2000 was different in that they were way ahead and then collapsed at the very end of the regular season). I don't have to tell you that this year Yankee fans have been far ahead of Met fans in complaining about the team, and I think it's because the playoffs seem out of reach right now. The Braves and Phillies are actually far more competitive with the Mets now than the Red Sox have been with the Yankees on average over the last 11 years. The Sox have averaged finishing 9 games behind the Yankees over those years. The story of the great Yanks-Sox rivalry has actually been hit or miss - four times the teams were close at the end, and seven times it wasn't close at all. I'd be very surprised if anyone has said seriously that Schoeneweis is the biggest problem on the Mets - he sucks, but the biggest problem for almost two months has been the hitting, not the pitching. And the fact is that Delgado is dragging down the entire lineup, and I really don't see how noting that is any different from saying "We really need to improve the cleanup slot." Delgado has a .378 slugging percentage and .207 batting average in 217 at bats in the cleanup slot, and a .475 slugging percentage and .288 batting average in 59 at bats out of the cleanup slot, and the implications of that seem pretty obvious to me. As someone who is willing to question the decisions of a manager, why criticize Met fans for being upset about this?
Jeff, I think you're still misunderstanding me. Like I said, this is not just coming from you guys on the board, but also from the fans I know in the regular world. I tend to think most of the Mets fans on this board are a lot like the Yankees fans. Mostly rational, and more intelligent about the subjects discussed than Joe Average. But maybe part of it too is that I don't see the Mets every day. I can only go on the instances I've seen them, and they look ridiculously good to me. Maybe not seeing them every day matters. Then again, when I said the same thing about ARod's failures last year, I was bombarded with the flame posts about how the stats said I had no clue what I was talking about. Perception speaks a lot. My perception is that you guys have nothing to worry about. Yours may vary.
You've played the "you don't watch the Yankees" card with me so let me play the Mets version with you. Anyone that's watched this team for the past month is going to be upset with how they've been playing. Record wise it may end up the worst since the 03 season. While I guess it's nice that the Mets are still in first as bad as they played, it really doesn't matter. It's not like they're going to be able to keep the lead if they keep going the way they've been.
Dude, in my last post I said it could just be a matter of my perception that is clouding my opinion. Come on man, I admit I could be very wrong about the Mets, simply because I only have a small frame of reference. Gotta read all the posts before responding bro. :up:
