I agree. I haven't seen Favre hit a WR on a deep sideline pass in stride for awhile. All of his shots downfield are either great catches by the WR or jump balls. He's hitting Keller deep a few times down the middle, but his sideline passes are really not there.
Early this season, Favre had no issues throwing the deep ball. Then we played Cincy, Favre got his arm whacked, and he hasn't had any zip on the deep ball since. He got plenty of velocity back on the short-intermediate passes, he throws lightning bolts on those, but I see exactly what you are seeing on the deep ball. I think his arm isn't entirely healed from whatever damage was done. Same story, different QB.
You could be right about Favre being injured. Mangini, tight-lipped as he is about injuries, wouldn't say anything though. If the Jets win and clinch early let's see how much rest Favre gets, that might be indicative of his health.
Even if he can't throw the deep ball as effectively as he used to, give him some play action when you see the safties sucking in on plays. Hell, even Chad could make a 30 yard throw when injured if he could run it off play action.
I was just about to post about this same topic. Where did all the play action calls go? We have agreat running attack right? Teams are starting the stack the LOS to stop the run right? So lets throw in some play action. Brett is a great PA QB, lets use some for crying out loud.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The problem with the Jets is simply coaching. Parcells would of never thrown on 3rd and 4th down and 1. Mangina doesn't know what to do with his talent. Thats why they won 8 games. Lets put it this way the jets have just as much talent as the Giants. Lets look. We have the top running back in the AFC. We have a scatback who is a great kickoff and punt returner. Our offensive line has 1 pro bowler on it and a center who is will be in the pro bowl. Our wide receivers are above average and have a tandem of tight ends. We also have something the giants don't is, Brad Smith, who can be a weapon if you seen the Oakland game . We don't use him enough! Our QB is a 1st ballot hall of famer and still has a gun. Now lets go to our Defense - This is where I see our coaching has flaws! Our Defensive line is our problem but can be fixed. You cannot take out Jenkins and put Pilhau and then Davito at DE and then rush 3. This is disaster! I've seen this many times and the other end wasn't even Ellis but Mosely. You have linebackers like Thomas and Pace who are pass rushers not pass defenders. You have a pro bowl bound cornerback and a near future hall of famer at the other corner. You also have a top 5 saftey in Rhodes and a rookie who looks promising in your secondary so there should me more turnovers but because of this 3 man rush or a 4 man rush with the previous rushers I talked about you are not getting enough pressure! QBS like Cutler,Rivers,Russell if you rush them you will get picks. You see the stat on Cutler? Was 6 and 0 when only 1 turnover or less. The loss of David Harris hurts but if you put in Bowen again I consider him a DE and can't cover the tifght end which happened yesterday. We beat Tennessee because we stopped the run but Tennesee never took advantage of our LBS with the TE. I don't want to hear that we are third in sacks because this is misleading. We need Hurries,QB knockdowns and QB pass deflections. We can do this because our secondary is good. Any decent NFL QB with time will shred you. The best example of this was the Arizona game. A tale of two halfs. The 1st is what we should always do and the 2nd let other teams like K.C do. Simply put Mangina doesn't win games just with coaching like Shanahan did yesterday with a depleted team!
I agree with all those stating that Brett's arm isn't the same. But I think the WR's have to also take part of the blame on this as well. Everytime I've seen Brett take a shot downfield to Cotch or Coles he's either over-throwing or under-throwing. I can't tell ya how many times (at least watching him live when we play home) I've yelled, "Oh no!" whenever he let the ball go in the direction of a tight covered receiver. Often times, Cotch or Coles can't get separation, or Favre is simply just under-throwing it. Whichever the case may be, I can tell teams defenses are no longer respecting our long ball anymore.
Its funny we bitched all the time about how Pennington cant throw deep now we have the strongest armed QB in the NFL and we now have reciever's who cant catch the deep ball. It's sad... But true.
Why not throw deep to Cotchery? He had that great catch against NE a few weeks ago and had the ball in his hands on a deep route and somehow it just slipped out? He may not have great straight line speed but he's a playmaker
I agree and disagree on a few points. So... AGREE: 1. I agree that the coaching was bad. Both Mangini and Schotty are at fault here. Schotty's playcalling was less than awesome (see the 3rd & short and 4th & short situations) and Mangini did not have this team motivated and prepared. When the team comes out flat, some of the blame has to go to the HC. 2. The pass-rush is feast or famine. It appears as though the Jets either scheme correctly and get a free-rusher or get no pressure at all. They need more guys to beat their 1 on 1 matchups. 3. The LBs do not cover well. This has been something exploited by TEs all season. I don't know if it's the scheme or talent, but TE coverage has been lacking (see Zach freaking Miller for an example). DISAGREE: 1. Revis is great, but Law (regardless of Hall of Fame potential) is not a good player to compliment. Law is old and not a solid player anymore. He can still jam people at the line like there's no tomorrow. But he has lost at least 1 step and can't cover in space. 2. Brad Smith is not the answer for this offense. The Jets need a WR with speed to stretch the field, not a guy who runs trick plays. 3. Rhodes, while a talented safety, is having a down year (I may start a thread on this tomorrow). He hasn't made many impact plays, save for a beatdown of the Rams, and was late in coverage against Denver. 4. This is the homer in me talking, but I don't think the Jets have as talented a team as the Giants in two areas: the secondary and depth. In the secondary Webster and Revis are both excellent young corners. However, Ross is much better than either Lowery or Law. The reserve corners of Dockery, Madison, and Thomas are also, IMO, more talented than Poteat and Barrett. Rhodes is a very good safety and more talented than any one safety on the Giants. However, the Giants have 3 good safeties in Butler, Johnson, and the rookie Phillips. They are all better than Smith/Elam. The depth issue is another concern for the Jets, as I see it. The Giants beat Arizona at home 2 weeks ago without their top WR and RB. Last week they made Washington look inept without their top WR and DT. They have also been without their best pass-rusher (Osi) all season. The Jets can ill-afford injuries to certain players (excluding QB because that's a given) such as Jenkins, Revis, and Jones. Okay, sorry about that. I just had to listen to my inner-homer there.
I think what the Jets lack the most offensivley is a tall and physichal WR. They need to bring a guy like that in here. They havent had one since Keyshawn was traded.
Chad can throw deep balls, they're just not the bombs you see from Cutler or Bulger that spread the field. Favre hasn't done that for us, certainly not recently, anyway. Our receivers can't catch a deep ball? what are you smoking? I swear to God , some of you guys make this shit up as you go along. That would help a lot in the endzone
1. The problem with Jets passing deep on the sideline is that, neither of Jets receivers (Coles/Cotchery) have the kind of aerial presence (which can effectively nullify their short height) - Greg Jennings is just as tall as Coles at 5-11, but he had no problem battling for the ball up in the air for grabs. Coles works better with ball thrown at his chest height or lower usually, and except the fade route at the goal line, you don't want to force him to receive the ball over his shoulder in a tight coverage. If you don't believe me, watch Favre interceptions from the past few games. His throw may not have been ultra-special, but they were not terrible throws either (maybe not yesterday - but then I still think Coles had a shot at it.) 2. This basically limits the routes Jets can run on deep route; Deep post, out-and-run, and if the receiver can deceive the DBs with steps, maybe post outs. The problem is, if the D knows it coming, it can't hurt anyone. Basically, the DB will be waiting for the cuts the WRs make. 3. Worse is that, I have yet to see a Jet receiver 'shielding' the pass with his body. If I saw that at least ONCE this season, I might be screaming out, yelling "Where is the skinny post?"
I think it should take more than 1 loss after 5 straight wins to start fixing things. Why change something that has worked more than it hasn't?
This is funny... When Chad was here, it was all because Chad couldn't throw it deep. Now that we have Brett, the fault is solely being placed on the receivers. The truth is, Brett's deep passes haven't looked the same since the beginning of the year.
In the Tennessee game the offense looked good sticking to running and short passes. But eventually teams are going to catch on to that. In the long term the Jets need make teams respect the long pass.
Oh, I agree. It was thrown well enough for Cotchery to catch it. But it wasn't a nicely thrown ball either. Some people want to lay all the blame on the WR's just because it's Brett Favre. Cotchery has made some great catches in the past, especially that one against NE a couple of weeks ago against his helmet, but people only focus on the negative.
