Bingo............... Also, I think they are pretty far from incompetent. If Tannenbaum has another good draft, I think he should be locked up for the foreseeable future because that would mean 3 straight years of solid draft leadership, something the jets have never had in my lifetime. That is not a coincidence that is good planning and execution. God I hope he kills the draft again this year. As far as OLB's there was only one available last year and he wanted no part of the Jets or any other team not named the Pats, so he was not an option. Thankfully, Hobson will be replaced this year, never ever did I think they would step back that much. I actually thought BT was a more talented player than he played last year. Maybe with a good player across from him, his production will go up to a level where it should be, such that the defense will be pretty damn good this year.
The problem is this isn't 4-12 from 15 years ago, teams get good and bad very quickly and you don't just throw out talent like this. These are recent high 1st rd picks thatbhave played at PB levels in their short careers. both are playing out of position BUT they are ultra talented, you find a way to make them fit. As far as contracts, Robertson's is big so I have less of a problem dealing him but Vilma doesn't have a big cap #. Vilma and Robertson will join a long list of ex-Jets that excel in other places. What's going to happen is in 2-3 years after Mangini is gone a new coach w/ new schemes will come in and then start dealing off these guys. It's been a terrible cycle for over a decade w/ us. Who mentioned Victor Hobson? Chad had the same shoulder 2 years ago and led us to 10-6, Chad had no OL and he's still the best QB we have on our roster. We have cap room, it makes no sense to get rid of him w/ an unproven guy waiting in the wings. We'd still have to get a vet backup, at worst Chad would be insurance as a vet backup. We are getting less talented, we give up good players for picks too often and our talent level is decreasing instead of increasing. I could part w/ Robertson but the other 2 it makes very little sense to move them. Obviously Harris has the starting spot but they never even tried to play Vilma at one of the LB spots. You don't just throw away talent.
How good have our last two drafts really been? We have two quality starters from both drafts and DBrick hasn't exactly been a great pick for the 4th over all. 4 players and we gave up our best talent on D for one of them. It's very possible by the end of next week we will have unloaded 2 more first round picks who are in their primes DRob and Vilma. If that happens we will have unloaded Vilma, DRob, Kendall and Abraham and replaced them with Revis, Harris, Mangold and DBrick. I'm not trying to be argumentative here because this team was a mess before and Abe had to be moved but reality I see a team that wasn't very talented still not very talented just younger. I have defended Mangini and Tannenbaum but I really hate the over all talent on this club and Tannenbaum and Bradway are still here. Mangini is worth developing in my opinion but I have no confidence in the front office at the moment and signing Fanneca for DRob money isn't going to give it to me.
Hold on a sec. We've gotten 4 starters out of the last two drafts? Clemens is a starter last time I checked, make that five starters. Leon Washington and Brad Smith are both significant role players that may eventually end up being starters -- in fact, Leon Washington might be one of the most dynamic players in the NFL right now -- this dude is butter. Chansi Stuckey was a 7th round pick last year and if he hadn't gotten hurt, he would've made the team. Drew Coleman was a sixth round pick and he's seen significant playing time. Eric Smith was a 3rd round pick and he's seen significant playing time. Sounds to me like the last two drafts have been really good ones.
Clemens is not the starter both the GM and HC have said there will be an open competition. The fact is if Clemens turns out to be a second rate NFL QB and we don't draft a QB this year Tannenbaum and Mangini are probably toast. I like Eric Smith but he was apparently in Mangini's dog house much of last year after coming back from an injury. If Brad Smith continues to go backwards like he did last year he will be a full time special teams player fighting for a job on the 53 man roster. Washington got less playing time last year not more and I'm really not sure why.
1. No, we're not. 2. What good players for picks recently (as in with this regime)? 3. We haven't even traded any of the 3 yet and you're complaining about it. 4. Vilma couldn't handle any of the other LB spots. He's at least 2-3 inches too short and 20 pounds too light to play OLB.
This regime gave up kendall, Abraham, cut Mawae and are on the verge of letting Vilma, Chad and Robertson to go. That's ALOT of talent to let go. Some they had to let go of and had justification but you just can't keep letting talent like that get away.
So we should have kept the 3 over 30 year old players? Kendall is like 35, clearly declining, and he was bitching about a million dollars. Mawae is way past his prime and not even that good anymore. We got Mangold for Abe...he got a big ass contract. Neither Vilma or DRob fit the system either. We're probably not getting rid of DRob, not with his 11+ million dollar cap hit. If we were letting YOUNG talent go, like Herm did with McKenzie Fergy, then I'd be pissed. But getting mad cause we gave up Kendall, Abe, and Mawae? Seriously?
The things those first three all had in common? Older, often injured, like to run thier moth to the press. Mawae was the only one who left the team without us receiving compensation in return. Abraham = 1st round pick = Mangold. Kendall will be a 4th rounder next year, not bad for a 34 yo guard that is on the light sdie. Vilma is not right for the scheme and is obvisoly not happy here. Robertson and Chad are rumored to go, but we have not seen any signs of them being allowed to shop them selves as we have with Vilma. The the apparent depth in this draft of the type of players we need (good O line and D line depth) this is a very good year to try and move that talent to fix the trenches that have been ignored for so long. One can only pray we use our assets this year to fix the glaring holes there.
I didn't complain about the other 3, you asked who they have gotten rid of and I showed you. Vilma and Robertson are young and SIGNED, those other players you refer to like Mckenzie were FREE AGENTS that were overpaid and ferguson was not young. It just doesn't make sense to keep losing talented players. It's a bad cycle, Parcells came in and got rid of good players that didn't fit his sysetm, Herm/TB came in and got rid of some good players that didn't fir their system and now Mangini/Tannenbaum are doing it. Check the list of the good players we have let go in the last decade: Douglas, Jeff Graham, Keyshawn, Farrior, Phifer, Young, Glenn, Coleman, Cox, Abe, Mawae, Law, Kendall, Moss, ... Some guys we were forced to let go of some guys we weren't but that's alot of damn talent to let go and now we can probably add 2 defensive players in their primes plus a solid QB. When does this cycle end?
Yea, but I guess I should have specified...what good players who can last long term with this franchise? 1. They also don't fit. 2. They're still on the roster. 3. McKenzie and Fergy should never have hit FA. Ferguson was only 30, and was a pretty good NT for the Cowboys. DRob had his best season next to him too. And we haven't...not any of the young ones.
Abraham was still young and would have fit in the new scheme. Ferguson was medicore for a few years then all of a sudden he had a really good contract year(thanks in large part to Robertson) and Ferg didn't do much in Dallas and wanted a huge contract. Mckenzie was a GOOD player but again he was vastly overpaid, if we signed him to what he wanted you guys would have flipped. These players may not fit but my point is we keep changing schemes and good players we bring in all of a sudden don't fit and we get rid of them. It's a bad cycle and it sets us back. We are getting rid of Vilma AND/OR Robertson.
Yea he would have, but 31 year old, oft-injured, big money players aren't exactly what a HC is thinking about when he wants to make a long term investment in a player. Yea, I'd say it's the opposite. Robertson hasn't been as good without Fergy next to him, and Fergy went on to have good seasons as a 3-4 NT for the Cowboys. You're probably right on McKenzie. Which is why we should actually stick it out with a HC who seems to have a plan...instead of just firing him because it's taking longer than many thought.
By the way, this morning it was reported in the Detroit Free Press: "...Rogers still has some value to the team. There is nothing wrong with keeping him. The problem is building around him. Last year, the Lions did everything for Rogers but hand him cupcakes on a silver platter. They bent over backward for a player so overweight, he can't bend over forward. The idea was that if Rogers got whatever he wanted, he would have no excuses. Well, the Lions were right about one thing: Rogers had no excuses. But he disappeared in the second half of the season, largely because of his largeness. By catering to Rogers, coach Rod Marinelli cost himself some credibility. Marinelli talked about football character and accountability. But then he let Rogers set up a country club in the middle of boot camp. By the end of the season, Kitna was complaining that "our boat is not very full." It was pretty clear that Rogers was not on the boat...."
A lot of you guys want to get rid of DRob -- well, just remember that he has had a knee without any cartilage left in it since he was first drafted. Why hasn't Mangini given DRob permission to find a trade for himself if the NYJ are as anxious to rid themselves of him as they are supposed to be with Vilma? We fans are all out here with our noses pressed into the window, doing a helluva lot of guessing while the CS mills around on the other side of the glass, their backs turned toward us and everybody else. So I don't know if any of us (or the media) really know what's going on...
You wanted to spend big bucks on 30 year old Jason ferguson who had only 3 full seasons from 1997-2004 but you were ok w/ trading away a big time pass rusher who was 27 at the time? Ferguson did very little w/ the Cowboys and Robertson not being as good had more to do w/ injuries in '05 and changing schemes the last 2 years. I hope Mangini is around for 10 years as long as he doesn't have many more 2007's. I want the cycle broken.
So where is the negative part other then letting Kendall go without a replacement? Abraham, Mawae, Vilma, Roberston, geez. Chad is not going anywhere because we need someone to backup Kellen
Mangini came in and cut veterans like Mawae, Fabini, and 21 other guys. Then he went and traded the loud mouth who didn't deserve to be a loud mouth. How did he fail to establish dominance? 1. DRob could not be moved without taking a MONSTER cap hit at a time we could not afford to take a cap hit. 2. Theres been tons of rumors on Vilma, but maybe the league just isn't as high on Vilma as we are/once were? I mean it's not exactly hard to find a MLB with his skillset, and 4-3 LBers in general are a dime a dozen. Truth be told we would have sucked in the 4-3 too. Who would line up next to DRob at DT? Not Pouha, remember he was out all of 2006. Who would be our pass rushing end? A soon to be 31, oft-injured DE looking to get paid? Bryan Thomas? A 30 year old, clearly declining Ellis? Think critically, you're taking the info you have now and making it seem like this is the way it was then. Theres a million reasons why your Madden offseasons haven't happened yet. Our cap situation has been hell since the Parcells era, and the only reason we've only had minor mobility since then is because Tannenbaum really is as talented and highly skilled at being a bean counter as Parcells and Bradway thought. You can't just move a contract like Robertson's...or say we should have been in the 4-3 because we're missing 3-4 personnel, we were also missing 4-3 personell...it's not that easy.
i for one, would be patient with tangini, if i see that thier trying to field a winning team. lets see the moves they make come friday. we need to build a young team, that has a future. we need to mix in some veterens, for leadership. i think faneca would help us tremendously.we saw the drop off, on the line, when kendall left.faneca can only help brick and mangold.
