It would be hard to imagine a guy in such a competitive business not making a move for the reason that it may make him look bad. As GM his focus should be giving the coach players that can win football games and nothing else. When he took Hackenberg last year, Mac had no way of knowing what rate Hackenberg (or even Petty) would develop at. He also had no idea where the Jets would be drafting this year and what the performance level of QB's in this class would be. Therefore, I don't think drafting another QB in the early rounds makes him look stupid or foolish if he is convinced that one of them is a better option than what he has. He would look much worse if he passed on one of these prospects and they turned out to be stars.
I agree. I can MAYBE see why he took a chance on Hackenberg last year, but he has to be disappointed that the kid hasn't shown more progress. And here's the question: If he thought Hack was worth a 2nd round shot, poor footwork and mechanics and all, why in the name of all that's holy would he NOT take a shot on Mahomes or Watson??? Last year he was likely thinking that the Jets would possibly make the playoffs and be picking pretty deep in each round, thus taking Hack as a developmental project made sense. But after this year's fall to reality, he has the opportunity to take a much better prospect as his QB. If he fails to do that, he's being very shortsighted.
Ultimately Hack is the deciding factor. Alot of people that want the QB at the 6 pick base it off his preseason performance and some off the fact he never saw a game. The coaches said he was not going to see the field and his preseason game had very little prep with the playbook and or starters and he will be a year removed from that game in 2017. Only the coaching staff really know how much hack has progressed I don't care what reporters say...They need to make a fuss so they get hits of course. I just hope John Morton can evaluate QBs AND Mac listens because if he says Hack is not gonna work I am totally on the draft Watson at 6 train. I just hope hack develops for the future of this franchises sake.
If the jets are always going to be in a position where they are selecting a QB with a high first round pick, the GM and the HC need to be fired. It could end up being a cycle of ineptitude. Wasting picks on QBs that may pan out and leaving the team void of talent because your always selecting a guy that does not develope is Cleveland type of management. If the jets select a CB or safety with the 6th pick it will probably work out better for them than selecting a QB that may not see the field for 2 years. I agree wholeheartedly with you about the franchise QB but most of these guys need a team around them to succeed.
I don't think any of us who are advocating selecting a QB at #6 (whomever we each favor) are doing so with the prospect of them not seeing the field in 2 years. I would expect the guy I'm rooting for (Watson) to start day 1. And if he is being considered at #6 with the expectation it will take him two years to see the field, then I'm with you......don't pick him!
I'm not saying he will take the field in 2 years because he is not good enough, I just don't have any confidence in TB. If the jets sign a veteran QB there is no way they will select a QB and bring 4 QBs to camp. If they don't sign a veteran then I believe you will see a QB selected and the battle will begin in training camp. The handling of the QB situation during off season will tell us a lot about the up coming draft in regards to a QB being drafted.
hmmm..if we don't have a LT and now don't have a RT does it really matter who plays QB? It will be a short lived existence for whomever it is.
The Jets have spent 2nd round picks on 2 backup QB's in the last decade, those being Kellen Clemens and Geno Smith. It's not unreasonable to suggest that Hackenberg is going to wind up there if he improves enough to actually set foot on an NFL field.
Westie, no imagination is needed. It happens almost every season with every team. They hold onto players who were high draft picks that probably should be cut. I think you're totally wrong about what the GM should be doing. A GM's job isn't to just please the HC or for one season. His job is to build a sustainable winner. His job often requires him to ignore what the HC wants when it conflicts with the GM's long-term vision for the team. Some players are pretty much ready to play in the NFL. GMs don't need to guess at what rate they'll develop. Most players take some time to develop. GMs have a general idea with some, but for some, perhaps many, players they have no idea of how long it's going to take players to develop or even if they will develop. That's why the draft is a crapshoot. How is he going to look foolish for not taking a QB when he drafts other players who were BPA and/or addressed needs? As you yourself said, he would have no idea when or if any QB he took would develop. That's a HUGE risk. If he selects other players that help the team and make it stronger, he will not look foolish imo. He has to show confidence in himself and in his previous picks until they prove they aren't deserving of confidence. We obviously see this from radically different (polar opposites, really) perspectives, and I don't think we'll come to any agreement on this.
How was he supposed to show progress when the very thing that is holding him back, that he needed to work on, wasn't even going to be addressed until after the season was over? I'm sorry, but that makes absolutely zero sense! He wouldn't take a shot at them because he believes in Hack. You don't take a player that high unless you really believe in him. You have to give players time to develop. You can't panic and second-guess yourself every year and draft players at the same position you did last year. That's just silly.
Mac didn't draft either Clemens or Geno. I'm certain that he wouldn't have taken Hack if he thought he was only going to wind up as a backup QB. But even if being a good backup is all that Hack amounts to, it's better than being a complete bust as many QBs are, but hang on because of the scarcity of good QBs. It wouldn't be ideal or good value for a second round pick, but how many second round picks have the Jets made over the years that they got absolutely no value for or return on?
This arguement is totally screwed up from whichever side you look/take. The current structure implemented by the Ambassador to Britain, leaves little to no hierarchy with decisions being made by rock, paper, scissors! 1 for you, 1 for me. "Darn it! I drew the short straw again! Ok you get Hackenberg .."
I agree with this, but I didn't say his job was to please the HC. I said his job is to supply the HC with players who can win, which from what I read above is what you're saying.
To some here, you come off as condescending. Remember just because your team is smarter than ours doesn't mean you're smarter than us. Don't try to act like you are, that's asinine.
I by no means am in the same league as a Belichick, Rex Ryan, or even Bowles. Otherwise I would have a job in the NFL. I am only telling you how Belichick over the years has managed the Pats. This same thing could be argued for Pete Carol in Seattle, you build the team from the bottom up. This seems to go against what you typically hear from the media and it is the complete opposite say a Denver Broncos. This system of team management seems to have worked well for the Pats for a long time. So I can't see why you wouldn't consider it a strong methodology to consider. I have coached football but only in the high school level for a few years. I learned quite quickly it requires a lot of time and there is no money in the near foreseeable future. I learned that the more you learned the more you don't know like many other things in life. I tend to be analytical, so maybe I come across condescending, but that is not my intent. Believe me when I say humility is the greatest form of intelligence.
Personally...I think 95% of the "Hack hate" is overblown. Other than that one lousy preseason outing in which he had zero protection & was severely restricted by odd play calling..what evidence is there to really not believe in the guy other than he didn't see the field...which was a strategy the front office romanticized from the very onset of drafting him. Alot of the Training camp twitter hate didn't even match up when the actual footage was shown. People saying how inaccurate he was...and then you see the throws..and yes..maybe the ball placement needed work but it wasn't erratic...and he showed great velocity. It could very well be true that he is struggling behind the scenes...and maybe he can't hit the ocean.But until we see it first hand and until he shows evidence that he's plateaued within his development..it is all second hand speculation.It does no good to shoot the guy down before he even enters the phase we all knew his development & future would hinge on: Right now. This offseason. Working on that foot work & mechanics. I think Mac took Hack with a few different factors in mind... 1. He saw guys like Lynch being touted as 1st rounders...and felt that they needed some work underneath the hood. He felt Hack could be a similar type of prospect without quite the big board hype...and saw value & a potential bargain in selecting him outside of round 1. 2. At the very least...taking a "mystery" high ceiling developmental type...buys him more time to figure out the QB puzzle. If he came to the conclussion he wasn't gonna find a day 1 starter at QB in the draft...he could've quickly stumbled upon this type of pick as his "out" 3. He seems to religiously follow that Ron Wolfe mantra of taking a QB in every single draft until you find one. If you can't find the definite immediate solution...get someone who could develop into it over time. It's hard to deny Hack's upside. I really like Hack's leadership qualities & intangibles. He's a likable humble kid w. charisma to boot. Personality is half the battle at signal caller. When you factor in the physical things he's capable of throwing the football & standing in the pocket..I sure hope he fixes that awful footwork...the sky is the limit.
No worries, I wasn't offended by your posts, but I understand why others were. We can get defensive because our team is pretty embarassing. But we're cool with fans of other teams as long as they aren't trolling us.
It's true that the Jets have not gotten value out of the 2nd round. The QB's are part of that conversation. I really don't want the Jets to spend another pick in no-man's land on a QB. If they spend in the top 36 I can handle it but picking guys that the entire league has said no too and all the bad teams have said no too twice is just bad business. Yes, you can find a Russell Wilson or a Dak Prescott or a Kirk Cousins after that golden zone but you spent much less value than a 2nd round pick to do that. There hasn't been a good QB selected in the 2nd round after the 4th pick of the round in about 50 years at this point. In other words since the draft evolved into a more scientific process the 2nd round has been a dead zone for QB's after the first 4 picks. This is likely because the NFL does exhaustive analysis on QB's and the bad teams always need a QB and once you get through that sieve twice in the same process the odds on any of the guys remaining being worth the pick are low. The guys who have been successful recently as mid-round picks all had strikes going against them in terms of size, scheme, experience, etc. They were kicked out of the elite prospect zone early on in the process and then made it based on other factors in play - like the Seahawks turning over every rock and stone looking for a QB in 2012 and then having a fully open QB competition in camp, like RG III getting hurt and opening up an opportunity for Cousins to play, like Tony Romo going down for the year and giving Prescott a shot, etc.
