it'll be interesting. I don't think height is majorly important. it's nice to have a big guy or 2 but i'd rather have someone who can consistently get open. we've drafted some big WRs only to have them fail. mims, stepehn hill, devin smith, stewart, hansen, enunwa, evans. were all over 6'. some of the best guys we drafted were coles, moss, moore (so far), they are all under 6'. this system prefers guys who can get open and YAC over pure size
Well, as usual, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that height is extremely important. We've drafted small WRs that didn't pan our as well. I don't think there's a WR in this draft class who gets more YAC than Burks. He also breaks lots of tackles. This system also prefers WRs who can block. Midget WRs can't block worth a damn.
I mean that may be the case with burks, but if he was 3 inches shorter would you care? probably not and that's my point. Funny story when i started my madden franchise this summer, I imported the the draft class for this upcoming draft. and on offense I selected burks, wydermeyer, and zamir white with my 1st 3 picks. white seems to have fallen off the draft radar becuase injuries but the other 2 could be jets picks IRL. hell possibly even all 3 if white is sitting around late in the draft
If Burks was 3-4 inches shorter, I wouldn't be trumpeting him and wanting him on the Jets. He's a dynamic talent, but I truly believe that we need a tall/big-bodied WR.
thats pretty shocking. you realize thinking like that is what caused teams to pass up on guys like steve smith. Lots of the best WRs in the NFL are under 6' i'm not sure why you would prioritize height over more important things. didn't we learn anything from denzel mims, stephen hill, devin smith, etc or all the other tall fast WRs we wasted picks on? meanwhile the 3 best WRs we've drafted in like the last 15 years were all under 6' (moore, coles, moss)
It's shocking to me that you just dismiss the height issue and ignore the problems that having nothing but short/small WRs causes. Did we learn nothing when we had nothing but short WRs and the problems that caused for our QBs? Smith was not drafted until the 3rd round solely because he was short. He had played two years for Santa Monica College and then Utah, that at that time wasn't a big football school. He simply was misevaluated or is one of those players whose heart, will, determinatoin make him a better pro than scouts think he will be. The situation also dictates needs. A WR corps needs different types of WRs, with differing traits, skills, aspects. If we didn't already have Moore and Berrios, it would be one thing. Then getting a tall, big-bodied WR wouldn't be nearly as important, and instead just getting a great prospect would be the major factor. We DO have Moore and Berrios at present, so the last thing we need to do is add yet another WR who is the same size and who has basically the same skill set, attributes, and who isn't a complement to the others. The problem isn't with my thinking, but with yours. If you can't understand why height is important, how it creates mismatches against DBs, and how it is a great factor in enabling the QB to be able to throw it up and let his WR go up and make a play on the ball, especially in key situations, 3rd downs and in the Red Zone, then I can't help you.
how many teams have 2 huge WRs? we already have 1 in davis. the issues with the QB was nobody getting open. when our WR group was relatively healthy we had a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string QB all go for over 300 yards (including a 400 yard game) getting open is more important then being tall. especially in this offense, we want guys who get open fast on short routes and can YAC after they catch it. as far as what we have currently, we don't have berrios. we have davis (tall big WR) Moore (small speedy WR), Smith (tall speedy downfield WR), Mims (tall, big, fast WR). Moore is the only WR on the current roster under 6'1" so you could easily make the case that a smaller WR is more necessary. I understand why height can be a factor at times, what i'm saying is we already signed davis and drafted mims for that and that our system does better with guys who can get open fast, run great routes, and can pick up YAC. the reality is, even with a height advantage most QBs especially a young one aren't going to be throwing up 50/50 balls to a covered WR because he has a height advantage all game long. when was the last time you seen the jets throw a fade in the end zone? or any team really? Qbs are going to throw to guys who are open and the ones that can get open fast are important because it helps the o-line. AB was the best WR in the NFL for a span of like 4-5 years and he was about the same size as moore. he wasn't even the fastest guy, he was just such a good route runner you couldn't cover him. you wouldn't take AB in his prime (less then mental issues) over denzel mims or stephen hill? I'm not saying height isn't important at times, i'm saying it's less important that actually being able to get open consistently and to get YAC in this offense
I'm thinking London might be there later in the first because of the injury. I prefer Burks at #10, but depending on how the draft shakes out, it might be that a stud Edge is there at 4 or 10, and a stud OL also, and if that happened, I'd try to get London with my next (3rd) pick if possible, assuming Burks would've already been taken. I really like London's toughness and fire, and I think that offsets any perceived "slowness" he has. The only reason I'd take Burks over him is that Burks provides a lot more flexibility beyond just a WR which seems to be what LaFleur's offense likes. But if London has made a full recovery by the Combine and shows what he's capable of he won't last until the late first round, then it will be a tough choice between him and Burks for me. I'd like both please!
This is the last time I'm going to respond on this topic. 1. Davis can't be trusted imo, and he was never that good anyway. He will be replaced when his contract expires. 2. Your stats can be misleading in that it all depends upon the D we were facing in any one game (zone vs man) and how that D plays that week. 3. You make it sound as if all tall WRs don't get open but all small ones do. That's absurd and patently untrue. Burks gets open. I'll bet that none of the WRs we presently have or that are in this draft are as fast as Burks, or if they are, they aren't nearly as talented as Burks. I know for a fact that Burks was at the top of this draft class in YAC, and with his combination of speed, size, strength, and ability to break tackles, there isn't one we could draft who would be any better than Burks. Its also true that tall WRs don't have to have as much separation as a smaller WR because they're often taller than the DB and because of that they're open even when there isn't that much separation, i.e, they present a better target for the QB. 4. I totally disagree with your comment that a small WR is more necessary. Why would a small WR be more necessary when they aren't any more likely to get separation/open than a tall WR? The bottom line is that we need the best WRs who are the best scheme fits, and since speed, YAC and blocking are important in this scheme too, that disproves your idea that we need more small WRs. 5. I believe that Berrios will be back, as will Jeff Smith. We have plenty of small WRs. 6. Until Davis proves that he is reliable catching the ball and can stay healthy, he isn't reliable imo. More than likely, Mims is a bust and won't be here much longer, or at least he's not a scheme fit and will be released or traded if the Jets can get anything for him. 7. With regards to the bold, what previous Jets OCs and QBs did doesn't matter one whit. If you watched Zach at all in college, he threw the ball up for his WRs to get it at times. It's also a great weapon at a QBs disposal and MLF and Zach would be foolish to not seize the opportunity to use it. I'll bet that we will start seeing it with Zach and the Jets' offense. 8. Your trying to compare AB with Hill and Mims is disingenuous and flat out dumb. Again, you're tryin to make some feeble attempt at proving that shorter/smaller WRs are inherently better than tall ones, and that's utter BS. This is why I have problems with you. You have cockamamie ideas and make totally outlandish, ridiculous comments regarding them.
1) so a guy who's been a good Wr2 for 4 years can't be trusted due to 1 injury/off year but a guy who has never played in the NFL can be trusted? especially when the rookie bust rate on WRs is high. you know davis was the 5th overall pick in the draft. chances are 90% of the WRs drafted will never have as good of a career that he has 2) I didn't post any stats other then passing yards. those 3 games were indy (zone) buffalo (mixture of zone/man), and miami (man). mia and buffalo both have good defenses, matter of fact buffalo was the number 1 defense in the NFL. so not sure what your point is. i get football can be situational, but the point was our skill position group can generate yards as it is when healthy, so we are just trying to add to a good group and not blow it all up. we have tall WRs and small speedy WRs so we aren't missing an exact thing 3) I never said that, I said ability to get open is more important then tall. If they are tall and can get open thats great. I'm saying I don't care if they are tall or short as long as they can run good routes, get open, and pick up YAC. lots of "less then ideal physically" players have dominated the game due to technical skills, football IQ, work ethic etc. Lots of "prototypical physical players" have busted out of the league 4) my comment wasn't that we need a small guy, my comment was directed at you saying we have to many of those. we don't. My comment is I don't care if they are 7' or 5' as long as they can get open, make the catch, and get YAC. 5) smith will because he's an ERFA who will be cheap and knows the system. Berrios is iffy. he's asking for 9 mil and JD didn't want to give robby 10 mil and robby was a legit WR2. I doubt JD pays berrios what he wants and some other team may be willing to. we'll have to see. If I was a betting man though I'd say no way JD pays berrios 9 mil a year 6) he's proved it 5 out of 5 years. 2021 is likely the outlier not the norm. on top of that you know chase led the league in drops? but he made the pro bowl, rookie of the year, and is in the superbowl. and i'm sure you'd take him in a heartbeat. cherry picking 1 thing to make a point is a poor argument. deebo was tied for 4th in drops. https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232 davis isn't even in the top 28. the idea he can't be trusted over a few drops isn't the hill you want to die on. prior to this seaosn he's missed 3 games total in 3 years. he isn't an injury prone either. 7) that's college ball. mind you zach didn't have great recievers but college ball =/= NFL and things you get away with in college you don't in the NFL. which is why so many rookies throw a lot of picks including zach. he can't play like he did in college. he needs to play like an NFL QB. 8) my point was height doens't matter and it makes that point. realistically as far as proven WRs who are at least good enough to be a WR2 we have 2 of them. moore and davis. one is big and strong the other is small and fast. we aren't missing any type. we should pick the best WR for the system and not pick someone based on height. that was the only point.
My take on London, he seems like he already peaked. I dont know about his ceiling in the NFL. Does make fine catches.
The key words are highlighted. We draft shit WRs, tall and short. Smaller receivers are quicker while bigger receivers are stronger. Both can be successful and MiLF probably wants a little bit of everything to make his O run at full force. With Davis and Moore, we kinda need a medium WR IMO 6-6’1 Ridley, OBJ, Wilson.
I agree with all but the last sentence. There's no way OBJ is even under considration, Ridley shouldn't be, and Wilson should only be a consideration if another team takes Burks before we can or some problem is there of which I am unaware. Having Davis on the team shouldn't keep the Jets from drafting Burks. At most, Davis will probably only be here this season and next.
Can’t wait to see how FA plays out. I think we’ll sign or trade for a plug and play difference maker and draft a developmental in the 3rd to move in from Davis in 2023 if we want…. but I certainly won’t be mad if things turn out Different.
I like Calvin Austin a lot I think he could be a day 3 gem that could replace Berrios if he walks. Robinson I could see as a fit too in this offence as he’s a poor man’s version of Deebo Samuel. EE has all the measurements to be a player and is completely boon or bust. I’ll be interested to see his 40 time
Burks screams Shanahan type receiver. The more film I watch it just jumps off the screen. He’s a combination of Deebo Samuel and Andre Johnson. He’s got the YAC after the catch like Deebo and the hands/size/body type of Johnson. He’s growing on me to make him the best player in the draft. The only player that has a higher ceiling I think is Stingley just because he's the best Corner I’ve seen since Deon Sanders. Just has been injured and sat out most of this year to prepare for the draft after a minor injury and LSU being dismantled.
You act like someone at 6' tall don't have the ability to jump as high as someone listed as 6'3". It happens all the time. ..and If you consider 6' tall receivers as a midget sized WR, I think you should rethink how you evaluate WR's. Height doesn't make or break WR's In the NFL. You are focused far too much on height, instead of the ability of the player. That Is the important aspect, not sure why height Is so important all of a sudden. It really shouldn't be. As far as height vs blocking with a WR, that's irrelevant too. Sure, taller WR typically have a bigger frame, more strength. However... Just like In a fight, doesn't really matter how big you are, the fighter with the better technique will almost always win. Almost. There are plenty of good blocking WR that are 6' tall or shorter... Hines Ward Doug Baldwin Pierre Garçon Brandon Loyd Reggie Wayne Steve Smith David Tyree I could definitely keep going. IDK
