Yes Im being roasted by the guy who called Young a choker yet said his presence in a playoff made no difference bc they would have lost anyways. That my friend is moving the goal posts.
Babe Ruth has the best meaningless statistics of all time Please, Baugh played in a different era...if you want to put together a list of pre merger QB's or pre 1960 QB's be my guest but they are in no way comparable to todays. Baugh played with leather helmets for god sakes.
If I think a guy is a playoff choker and he leaves a game early that he is losing on the road against a team he struggled against why would I think SF would win had he stayed in?
Because that game doesn't have any say one way or another of him being a choker. It's no part of his resume. An 8-5 playoff record certainly isn't a choker. Especially a guy who won a SB...and 3 of the 5 losses being to the dynasty Cowboys and the Super Bowl winning Packers.
again, handed the keys to a dynasty. begged his was off TB b/c he sucked w/ less talent. Went to one of most talented teams in league w/ championship experience. 1990- title game loss w/ Montana starting 1991- miss playoffs w/ Steve starting 1992- 4 pt favorite, lose at home in title game, leads high powered O to 20 pts at home. 1993- lost on road at Dallas but didn't compete. dallas was favored by, less than what SF was favored by the year before. game was over by halftime 1995- div rd at home, favored by 9 1/2. Lost 27-17 which included garbage time TD late. 1996- left early but left when losing. 1997- lost title game at home 23-10, led O to THREE pts. pretend all you want.
#s aren't comparable but leading teams to wins is more important than individual #s and no QB has won more.
Pretend what? First ballot HOF'er, league MVP, Super Bowl MVP...all I need to see. Don't care about his meaningless stats.
It is possible to include old time QBs on a greatest QBs list. It can be done through research. Determinations can be made by using various materials- ---Highlight films ---Old games if you can get a hold of them (I have seen Sammy Baugh play two full games and own a DVD of a 1943 game in full color) ---Books, newspapers, magazines (particularly those written while the player was active) ---Statistical studies ---Testimonials from teammates, opponents and coaches. Of course, it is always easier to evaluate players you saw play while their careers were in progress. As far as eras go, Joe Montana played in a different environment than Peyton Manning. The rules changed a bit from the time Montana retired and when Manning entered his prime. As for Graham's era, receivers could be harrassed beyond five yards, the fields were sloppy, etc. It was tough to play QB in the 1950s.
Well, you can break it down by era and make a top four list for each era. 1920-32 (dark ages) 1933-49 (first era where stats were kept) 1950-65 (unlimited free substitution and specialization) 1966-77 (early Super Bowl era) 1978-2003 (major rules changes before '78 season) 2004-present (Bill Polian complaint era or the Player safety era)
Peyton has won plenty of playoff games. Tebow now works for ESPN. And that playoff game he won was the second to last start of his career. That speaks volumes for what the league thinks of him as a player.... Since Peyton has been in the league he has won 3, 13, 10, 6, 10, 12, 12, 14, 12, 13, 12, 14, 10, 13, and 13 games. The one year Peyton is out, the team he is on wins 2 games. Think about that. If your just going to say "they quit" to back up your argument then whatever. But there has been no proof that the team gave up. The proof backs up the fact that without Peyton Manning, that team was exposed. Most people around the league probably would not agree with you as they would all probably take Peyton Manning in his prime against most other QB's during this time period in theirs. Not all, but a large majority. lol at Peyton not getting a first down to run the clock down. He drove his team down to take the lead with less then a minute left. Now you want Peyton to not only take the lead late against a good defense but he now has to leave the other team with no time on the clock? If Mark did what Peyton did and the Colts won you would be killing the Jets D and ST coverage and praising Mark. Your not being the least bit consistent in your views. And the biggest play of that last minute for the Jets was the kick return by Cromartie. It set everything else up. Everyone knows this. I understand you like Mark but your just not being fair at all. If Cro runs that ball back to the 20 for example the Jets are in a lot of trouble. Everyone knows this.
I am not saying Tebow is good, the point is Denver had so much talent they could win a playoff game w/ Tim Tebow. playoff wins per year: Tebow: 1 Manning: 1 There is plenty of proof that you don't want to acknowledge. It wasn't just quitting it was also who they had at QB, a 40+ yr old just off his couch w/ no offseason and Curtis Painter. The next season despite less talent around the QB they won 11 games b/c they had good QB play. I'm not here to gain agreement, if my opinions were the popular opinion I'd say so but I am not going to agree w/ something I don't believe in. Would I love Peyton Manning? of course b/c he will give my team a chance to win but it would be disappointing too that a guy as great as he is w/ the weapons he has had only has 1 SB win. The KOR was huge no doubt, set up an almost identical situation to what Manning had in the 2005 playoffs against Pitt. Mark Sanchez set up his K for a chip shot and the win, peyton set his K up for a longer FG and they lost. They still had to make plays to get into good FG range, Mark and the pass game did that. Let's not try to take away credit from one of the best drives in team history.
If they had so much talent then why did Brady drop 6 TDs on em? And dont say its because its Tom Brady because Brady has only done it two other times in his career. The fact is the Broncos defense was horrible and honestly hasnt gotten much better since that season.
I dont recall anyone calling the Broncos talented when they were 1-4, like it or not Tebow deserves credit for his role in winning those 7 games.
sometimes things just keep rolling like the other day, I don't believe for a second Seattle was that much better than Denver but sometimes games go like that. The D was really good in 2011 and 2012, it got worse this year but played outstanding in the AFC playoffs and was their best unit on Sunday. you still need the right mix. I remember prior to 1999 always saying how much talent the Rams had but they didn't take off until Warner stepped in, it doesn't mean they didn't have talent prior to him.
They gave up 49 to the Packers, 40 to the Bills, 41 to the Patriots, 45 to the lions, 45 to the Patriots, 32 to the Vikings. (not all the points were on the defense but Tebow made few mistakes so) The Broncos defense had its good days and bad days, the games that stick out to me are the Dolphins game, Jets game, and Bears, they did make the timely stops but n the other hand we saw games where they just got run off the field.
last 8 games of reg season they allowed 17.9 PPG, they keyed the run. In 2012 they were 2nd in yds allowed, 4th in pts allowed.
There is no proof. A 40 year old off the coach? Oh you mean like the Jets did with Vinny in 2005? Curtis Painter was their backup QB, turns out he wasnt any good. Your not gonna know that for sure though till he actually has to play. The Colts didnt draft Painter thinking he would suck. Collins played the year before and played fairly decently for Tennessee. His age doesnt matter. If anything it shows they tried to get better by bringing him in over continuing to go with Painter or whoever else was on their roster. It is disappointing that he only has 1 SB win but he's been there 3 times. Maybe if he completes a crazy hail mary late against the Saints instead of getting picked (like Eli should have in 2007 by Samuels) in the game like his brother he sneaks away with another again and we are talking about how he is 2-1 in the big game. Marks pass game also went up against a poor pass defense. Peyton was going up against one of the best defenses in the league that year. Once Cro took that kick to the 50 it would have been really bad if the Jets lost that game.
