Right. And on the second play from Scrimmage, in the ensuing game, Coles got hurt. Two weeks later, Cotchery got hurt....
Both WRs just played and played well against the last ranked defense in the NFL, how did we do? Four FGs and a TD, 18 points.
Clemens put the ball DOWN the field, twice in places where Coles SHOULD have caught the ball, and Once from the 20, where Cotchery should have had 6. If you want to argue playcalling against Cleveland thats a seperate issue, than the fairly simple observation, that given the constraints, Clemens has clearlyoutplayed Pennington. How many Clemens Pick Six have cost us a game late? Also, Two of Clemens picks came in the last 5 min of the second Buffalo game, factor that in with the Baltimore start, (leaving ONLY Clemens stats since taking over as the Starter) and He's actually throwing picks at a rate of 1 for every 35 pass attempts. (less mistakes with the ball then Pennington). IF Pennington doesnt suffer the high ankle sprain, does that happen? Probably not. But He did, and It has. In fact, Given the fact that Pennington played a softer schedule, with better personnel, and that Clemens playing without Coles and Cotchery together, has produced 3 TDs, and 5 picks isn't great, but it is better than what was happening before he took over...
Played Well???? (P.S....Did they both play well, with Someone Else throwing them the ball....?) Cotchery did, Coles is still hobbled. However, Clemens is not running TJones between the Guard/Center gap regularly the OC is.
A huge problem has been not having enough reps to read defenses the way a seasoned Qb does. That only comes with playing time and there have been a lot of instances when he did not audible out of some bad plays. The Offense is designed for Dink and Dunk not Run and Gun.
Both WR played badly and should have not played at all except that we have no adequate back up. The 18 points against that lousy team which is in the playoffs as of today was more than the 13 points Chad put up against them last year when he was healthy and had both Coles and Cotch and a healthy decent LG.
Cotchery had over 100 yards receiving and Coles was making tough catches in traffic all day. Once again against a defense that was the worst in the league. At least when we played Cincinnati's bad D we scored points, and that was at their place. If we played any defense at all we win that game. You guys are also discounting how much better our own defense has played since the bye week. Had we gotten the offense back on the field more often early in the season we'd have won the Giants and Bengals games, at least. In the Cleveland game Rhodes set them up at the 12 with a pick and we got nothing. We got the ball back on the 50 and got nothing. Early in the year we were giving up long TD drives and the offense wasn't getting those chances. Again, I'm not putting it all on either QB, but you guys act like it's two different teams out there with the different QBs. Now your excuse is the schedule. Chad played against New England and the Giants, both of whom will certainly be in the playoffs, and two games against Buffalo who are 7-6. That's 4 of the 7 games he played. Bottom line is the only teams we've looked good against offensively were Miami with each guy and Cincinnati with Chad.
Don't you realize this is a pointless argument. Bottom line, the WR's, O-line, defense, and Running game was great when Chad was the QB and the reason we lost was because of Chad. Chad held back the running game, the WR could not get YAC because of Chad, and the Oline couldn't protect because of Chad. Now, Clemens is perfect and the running game is terrible, the O-line is terrible, the WR are crap and the defense is crap along with the play calling. This happened sometime between Chad being benched and Kellen starting. Once everyone starts understanding this then this board will be happy. The people that complained about the so called Chad lovers have now taken the man crush on Clemens to a whole new level.
I saw your above... regardless of the opponents or experience level, you would have a hard time finding a QB in this league that could really make a difference with this team this year either on the front or back end. Maybe we win a couple more games with a Peyton or Brady... whoopee.
Dude, you also left out that the defense couldn't stop the run or the pass with Chad in the game. What were you thinking? We actually would have won a couple more games under Chad if the defense wasn't busy folding like family size set of lawn chairs early in the year.
What excuse I think Clemens has not played well and Chad was outright horrible. Chad did have a healthier WR corp that's a fact you want to ignore. The running game has been better with Clemens, still bad but better. Clemens hasn't given games away in the 4th quarter, Chad did. Clemens has played badly, Chad was awful, if we get better QB play this team is a 500 club. We still are pretty bad but better.
Thanks...I think:grin: Chad got it from the start, chad was great in his first year starting and he led us out of a 1-4, 2-5 hole to a div title. Every player develops differently but all we heard was how this mess was Chad's fault. When receivers were dropping passes or Chad it was b/c Chad has no arm strength, when he was getting sacked it was b/c Chad has no arm strength, when the D couldn't stop a pop warner O it was Chad's lack of arm strength, when jones couldn't run it was Chad's lack of arm strength meanwhile Jones has a WORSE YPC w/ KC, the D is MUCH bettr, th OL in as good yet KC gets sacked alot more. I want KC to succeed badly especialysince I know Chad is done here but he hasn't shown alot yet. It's still too early to make a final judgemnt but I would like to see some progress. by the way, Chad was blamed by some on this board for getting Coles hurt early in the year(even though Chad had nothing to o w/ it as coles always jumps for the ball even when he doesn't have to just like he did against Cleveland) but Clemens' underthrow against Pitt actually did get coles hurt. Chad threw one every 27 attempts, KC is throwing 1 every 24.8 attempts and TDs Chad threw one every 21 attempts, KC 1 every 56. I am not trying to bash KC to pump up Chad as Chad struggled as well but if yo are going to compare it's in Chads favor as bad as he was playing. Chad didn't play against Washington and Dallas(as if those are great D's or something) and Pitt but he did have success against NE wen he had us in the game until he got hurt. Dallas' D is 15th in points allowed, Washington's D is 14th in points allowed. So what Chad didn't play against them? NYG is 12th, philly 10th and Chad played against both not to mention NE is top 5 and he had us in the game athe half and in it until he got hurt. How was the O built for Chad when they had no ideahe could even play agai when they took over? The hackett O was built for Chad even though Chad wasn't playing in '01 but this O was not. Chad was not #1 from day 1 last year. Aan how many wide open receivers has KC missed? a ton, he dos it time after time after time. You can blame a receiver for dropping a pass here and there but those plays wouldn't be as important if he could hit the open receivers he misss. and you are caught up on the sched when the sched hasn't been as difficult since KC took over. bal-24th in PA Washington-14th Pitt-1st Dallas-15th Miami-31st Cleveland-32nd avg: 19.5 chad played against: NE- 4th Mia- 31st buf(2x)- 16th NYG- 12th philly- 10th Cincy- 28th avg: 16.7 KC has been MUCH worse than Chad, sure Chad threw away a couple of games late but that was after our D had blown double digit leads, our runing game is better? then why is Jones averaging almost 1/2 a yard less when KC is playing? Chad was playing poorly but much better than KC has played. KC is young and I expect him to get better w/ experience but he's not he best QB on the roster right now. If our D played ealy in teyear the way it's playing now then Chad would still be playing and we'd be in the WC hunt.
I don't usually agree with junc but he is right when he says Clemens has been much worse then Chad. It's not even close. Everybody thinks just because Clemens can throw the ball farther downfield then that makes him a better QB. Just look at the stats and that part of the discussion is over. There isn't a single category that Clemens leads Pennington. Completions, Completion PCT, YPC, INTs, TDs, QBR, name it..he just plain sucks and he doesn't even have any excuses. He's not immobile. He doesn't have a bad arm. If you ask me he's just stupid and that's why he was demoted last year and why it took him so long to get in this year. For all of you who think he is this team's "future". He isn't. Of course Bradshaw was considered stupid his first few years in the league too and look at where he ended up. It isn't something that can't be corrected. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=pass&sort=rat&league=nfl&season=2&year=2007
No what everyone has seen is that in close games with it on the line in the fourth quarter Clemens has bucked up and Chad crumbled. I wouldn't characterize the play of either QB as better than the other. Chad brought a sense of calm to games early and panic late. Clemens has done the opposite, both have played poor enough to justify this team being what it is.
Ummm....Correct me if I'm wrong, but Chad sat for Two Full seasons.....and played on a team that was pretty much Built to win already, when he came in????? Underthrow???? 56 yards down the field, and he got tackled around the ankle??? Thats much different than putting him up 3 feet in the air, 5 yards off the LoS, in front of a safety/LB... In order to get there, you have to include the 2 picks he threw in the last 10 minutes of garbage time against buffalo, where the 3 points chad put up got clemens tossed into the lions den..... Maybe we could be honest and revisit that in terms of Total Defense.
